How Pacifism looks to those abroad

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427288#Comment_119427288

Stop badgering mark.

Naming 'names' is irrelevant. The point stands, arms industry influence on government policy.

Take the UK for example - pays lip service to human rights and the defence of freedom but exports arms to Bahrain, Turkey, Egypt, Philippines, Hong Kong, Israel, Saudi Arabia and others.

Now go look up their records on 'human rights'.

It's all a hypocritical game mark, and in the end comes down to money, power and wealth.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427293#Comment_119427293

so you disagree with those who think that Ukraine should negotiate a peace with russia?

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427334#Comment_119427334

Of course.... yet they freely accepted bombs and guns from regimes like Ghadaffi. Sure we all know he did it out of the goodness of his heart.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427341#Comment_119427341

I said so several times on the Sabina thread. The time is not right for negotiations. However if it develops into a stalemate as the IT article Sabina was responding to said, then yes, of course a negotiatied settlement is the right option to save lives. Same as happened here in Ireland, an agreement I fully support to this day.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427340#Comment_119427340

Naming 'names' is irrelevant. The point stands, arms industry influence on government policy.

So, you cannot name ONE name. ONE little name of a CEO who is part of this grand scheme to 'keep the conflict going'.

They must be really good at their job if you cannot name them, yet are powerful enough to get the Speaker of the house to visit Taiwan to up their share price, and then get China to conduct war games off the coast of Taiwan. Maybe they are not human but lizard people? Maybe THAT is the answer to it all.

Making a fool of yourself again Francie. A common theme these days.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427376#Comment_119427376

A ridiculous take. Not worthy of a response tbh.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427293#Comment_119427293

Once Russia invaded in 2014 they should have been treated as a pariah state and shunned by us and everyone else.

Eh, weren't you here laughing about how the Russians were 'Trolling' the Brits post-2014?

You seemed not too bothered about Russia's invasion into Ukraine then, you even encouraged them to troll the Brits because they deserved it over their past imperial history.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427275#Comment_119427275

I’m not sure how you see the alternative to a naive and hypocritical Irish pacifism as being “policing the world”. I’m not sure how anyone could see Ireland’s Defence forces even policing our own area when a former assistant chief of staff of the NS has pointed out that two new ships bought second hand from New Zealand are incapable of patrolling in rough weather or ocean conditions and due to crew shortages will spend most time tied up while still having to be maintained.

My op said that even for a credible neutrality we cannot embrace pacifism. I’m pointing to the problems of a dominant groupthink in Ireland and that it undermines us. That’s broader than Ukraine.

mcmoustache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427212#Comment_119427212

A lot of people don't understand the people outside of the west themselves have agency. They believe that only the west can have agency and that non western countries only do bad things because they are provoked or manipulated by the west, unlike Western countries who do bad things because they are greedy. It's as if those non-western countries don't know any better because they didn't have an "enlightenment" or something and that only the West can be capable of cnutishness due to our cultural superiority.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427383#Comment_119427383

So not one name of someone who 'wants to keep conflict going'....

Thought so.

Busted flush. That is what happens when Conspiracies meet reality.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427450#Comment_119427450

Any comment on how and why a country that declares to stand for human rights and freedom is exporting arms to Bahrain, Turkey, Egypt, Philippines, Hong Kong, Israel, Saudi Arabia and others (We can look at the US later, if you like) if these arms companies do not have 'undue influence'?

What is going on in your world view mark?

To me it is rank hypocrisy and so undermines everything else they have to say re: motives.

markodaly

Just to put this to bed this is an interesting article on the Conspiracy Theory that all this stuff, about Ukraine and Taiwan, is created by a group who 'want to keep conflict' going.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthompson/2017/05/08/eisenhowers-military-industrial-complex-shrinks-to-1-of-economy/

The amount of money set aside for developing and procuring military equipment in the budget agreement Congress reached last week is $197 billion -- a third of the $593 billion defense budget, and barely 1% of GDP (which stands at $19 trillion).

Granted, this may represent close to a tenth of all U.S. manufacturing, given the way so many industries have fled the U.S. for Mexico and Asia. But how much of a problem can the "military-industrial complex" be when it only represents 1% of the economy? Healthcare is 17%, but nobody refers the "healthcare-industrial complex."

In the absence of actual proof and evidence to the contrary anyone who spouts the guff about 'keeping the conflict going' is a whacky conspiracy theorist..

Now let's move on to the OP topic at hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427408#Comment_119427408

This. And that agency looks very critically at colonisation and post colonial and neo colonial activities. Currently being exploited by CCP for its own neo colonial ambitions in Africa.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427473#Comment_119427473

See my post above. It's clear you are a barking mad conspiracy theorist when it comes to the boogey man of the arms industry and their 'influence'.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427481#Comment_119427481

A Forbes article doesn't really cut it mark.

Plenty of articles out there to show how much is being spent and who is buying and selling arms.

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/reports/capitalizing-on-conflict

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427521#Comment_119427521

Forbes not good, but opensecrets.org is credible?

Barking raving mad looney tinfoil hat Tankie.

In regard to national interest (applies whether neutral, militarily neutral, non aligned, deluded etc) I came across this from the South African govt on an explicit statement of their interests.

Link won’t load but you’ll find it on South African DIRCO govt webpage.

Sets out the philosophy of national interest and South Africa’s view

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427594#Comment_119427594

Can you repudiate the figures in the OS article. All eyes here if you can.

Quite clear that there is much hypocrisy at play. Which IMO leaves any talk of 'motives' open to question.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427623#Comment_119427623

The US has a large defence sector. No sh*t. That's not a secret, it's documented fact and like saying the sky is blue.

And thank goodness they do because they arm democracies like South Korea, Tawain, Japan in the Pacific out the wazoo so they can defend themselves. Pax Americana has made these countries some of the wealthiest and most economically important on the planet.

That pisses off tankies who talk a big game about free and democratic societies, but cry into their Frosties every morning that they are actually defended from scumbaggery with iron and steel.

If you only care for your own liberties and not others, you are not a democrat of any stripe. You are a Tankie autocrat flunkie and a useful idiot.

That's what's become of you.

P.S, if you come to threads will bullsh*t tinfoil outlets like opensecrets.org, and tell others links from blue chip news outlets of standing aren't appropriate. Expect mockery.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427521#Comment_119427521

I never denied that there is an arms industry, I never denied that.

However, that is not your initial claim.

Your claim is that there is some sort of secret cabal of people out there with huge influence in order to 'keep conflict going'. That somehow they are powerful enough to get the Speak of the House to jet off to Taiwan and get the CCP to conduct war games, to up their share price.

That is your point of view and nothing you have posted has proven this theory. Therefore you're a conspiracy nut.

As the Forbes article mentions 1% of US GDP is tied up in Arms manufacturing. They must not be good at their jobs in this 'keeping conflict going' Francie.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427649#Comment_119427649

Expect mockery back if you keep ignoring the inherent hypocries in arming all and sundry and then try and sell the doozie that you are for human rights and demcoracy.

Only the naive buy that line.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427521#Comment_119427521

Plenty of articles out there to show how much is being spent and who is buying and selling arms.

And?

That is not the same thing you claimed and posted earlier.

The 'game' is to keep conflict going mark.

You think that the arms industry is powerful enough to get Pelosi to visit Taiwan to up their share price.

That is the conspiracy theory.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427677#Comment_119427677

Mark, nothing that you have posted has disproven the theory that arms industries have undue influence on government policy. NOTHING/

You spin the argument to me saying something I didn't, (that Pelosi went under instruction by arms bosses) and then have a ridiculous rant about that. Who do you think that juvenile stuff fools?

Transparent debating style.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427683#Comment_119427683

You're a Tankie autocrat enabler who only cares for his own liberties.

Not only are you not a republican, you find yourself in the company of the biggest scumbags in the international political sphere. Murderers and those that crush free speech and impression dissenters.

Free societies aren't built and maintained by men like you. They atrophy and die with the dead hand of your brain-dead and miserable philosophy.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427702#Comment_119427702

Francice... its your theory.. its up to you to prove it.

Can you prove to us how the Arms industry got Pelosi to visit Taiwan to 'keep the conflict going'?

Any proof on this please?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427689#Comment_119427689

That is not the same thing you claimed and posted earlier.

The 'game' is to keep conflict going mark.

That is 'my opinion' based on the facts I keep posting when asked.

You still haven't rationalised why a country like the UK, which espouses human rights and democracy, has a policy of selling arms to Bahrain, Turkey, Egypt, Philippines, Hong Kong, Israel, Saudi Arabia and others?

Go on, have a go.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427714#Comment_119427714

I never said this.

You style is to draw people out to be able to spin a lie like this and then hang your response on it.

Not falling for it.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427710#Comment_119427710

I will say it again. Russia is the worst offender. That does not free others of criticism.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427722#Comment_119427722

Yes, your opinion, which is a conspiracy theory.

You have not demonstrated how the Arms industry is responsible for stoking up tensions in Taiwan or the South China Sea. In fact you draw a blank when asked.

Every topic is a soapbox for you.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427714#Comment_119427714

He hasn't thought that far ahead.

He's currently scanning infowars.com in a frenzy looking to linkdump some sh*t so he can scuttle off and pretend to he's not made a show of himself yet again.

Anyone who has been to both the PRC and Taiwan knows immediately the importance of preventing an invasion and placing an apocalypticly high tarrif on Beijing for trying anything.

The liberties of Taiwan are of global importance. It's the last place in the Chinese speaking world where the Chinese people live in freedom (apart from in diaspora - and even there dissenters are hunted and intimidated).

Tankies need to be told f*ck off once and for all. If they want an Asia-Pacific dominated by a rotten communist kleptocracy, they should stop wasting our time and come out and say so.

The difference between that outcome and the status quo is the US backing Taiwan to the hilt. And long may they do so for all our sakes.