Installing door

Seve OB

I’ve another thread going about the shed I’m building but wanted to keep this specific as I might catch some more attention.

im nearly ready to install a door. It’s a beast, very very very heavy. Composite. French door style, mainly glass.

first and simple question. Do I install the door before the roof? Or after? Or does it matter?

I think I’ll be able to take the doors off it to hang the frame in place. I’m reading I should allow a gap of about 10mm on sides and top? Will then infill this gap with some expanding spray foam, and silicone.

do I need to put the door on some sort of sill? the frame seems to be around all 4 sides. So I’m not really sure what benefit a sill would be? I’m also not sure any kind of sill would take the weight of this door. When I look at my own front door, it is similar style with the frame across the bottom and there is no sill at all.

help and advice appreciated please. I’ll stick a couple of photos up this afternoon

I would say install the roof first— it will add strength to the structure, so it'll better carry the weight of the door.

If the door will be inset in the frame, I'd say use a sill to take the runoff away. If it'll be flush, don't bother. (Sills for those doors seem to be basically bent metal sheets).

Actually, from your photos on the other thread it looks like you'll be putting the door on timber not concrete block, so I'd say use a sill regardless to try and keep the water away.

Seve OB

No there is a space there for the door and it will sit on concrete block. It will be flush.

I am certainly leaning towards no sill.

Seve OB

Pics

That’s just the DPM and DPC running across. Was going to sit the door on that, flush with the front, which you probably can’t tell from that pic is about 1 inch higher than the granite stones

Seve OB

Daft question, should I open it in or out?

Seve OB

Is 1 cm to much or to little space to leave around the door frame?

im planning to build the wall tomorrow in which the door will sit.

Apparently the convention is for doors to open in, with the rationale being that (a) having hinges on the outside makes it easier to remove them/lift the door off and break in (b) opening a door into a space people move through (a street/corridor etc) causes a high risk of hitting someone in the face with a door and (c) it's awkward to open a front door outwards if someone knocks.

Obviously none of these considerations apply when installing a glass door which opens to your back garden, and opening outwards would save a significant amount of space in the new shed.

1cm all around the frame is the recommendation as far as I know. I think that's basically a margin of error; if you are 100% satisfied that the space for the door is perfectly plumb & the correct size, then theoretically you could reduce it to 1mm— but if it turns out you're just a little out you'll need that margin for adjustments. And 1cm is easy enough to fill with expanding foam & silicone. The expanding foam also helps hold the door in place, and the 1cm gap gives access for the nozzle to inject the foam.

Please post lots of photos of the door install, and also lots of detail on what problems you encounter; I'm hoping to be installing mine at the weekend.

Seve OB

Thanks for tips and advice. I was considering everything you said there regarding swinging it in or out. My own back doors (glass french door) swing out. This door was removed from a new house (as owners didn’t like it apparently) so it’s new enough, but was clearly set to also swing out. Alarm sensor on reverse and the little drainage holes down the bottom on hinge side.

I was personally thinking it should swing in, with the same security and safety reasons you mentioned, but was also considering the way it would theoretically reduce space within the shed. Every shed I’ve ever seen I think has out swinging doors. I think I’ll go this way.

from looking some YouTube up, I think it might not be a good idea to take the door off the hinge for installation as it might hinder getting it in the correct position to ensure door closes etc. they all seem to install with door on. However, glass out, but these are new doors I’m looking at. I’m nervous about taking the glass out. It’s gonna be bloody heavy, it’s gonna be awkward as hell, it’s not gonna be easy to get it back in, and let’s be honest about it, it’s gonna break 🤣

I might need to consider taking glass out at the top though so that I can screw the frame in from above. That’s probably as much as I’ll do. Will have to take my time with that.

I should explaining my plan. Think I made a mistake but it is what it is and I’m not changing now 🥹 the gap between brickwork is 142cm. My door is 122 cm. I had ordered wooden posts 100*100 which I planned to use as a solid frame around the door butted up against the brick and sitting on the DPC/DPM. I probably should have brought the brickwork in closer and rested the posts on this (but I didn’t!) of course with wood being wood, it came as 90*90. Which ironically gives me that 1cm clearance either side, although I expect it might end up being slightly smaller once everything is in place.

so I will have pretty much 1cm to spare on both sides so happier now that you say that’s ok. I will build frame with similar clearing on top.

i think I’ve decided not to go with any sill. I’ve seen lads stick down a layer of flash band on the ground so I might go this route as I do have a roll.

should I leave the DPM where it is? It’s sitting under the block work.

should I leave the DPC there also? I just ran the DPC the full with across the top of the blocks.

I was planning to leave both in place and roll the flash band down over them.

Guys are putting a bead of sealant on the ground before placing the door in situ. I presume this is just the silicone which I will also use to finish off around the edges once I have infilled the gaps with expanding foam? I’ll put this on the flash band.

lastly, of course I’ll stick photos up, but you are gonna get there well before me 😀 I’m not planning to install for at least a few weeks, maybe longer if I wait till I get the roof on first. I am just trying to plan at the moment and make sure my dimensions are all ok once I have my wall up 🤞

good luck with your own progress this weekend. Let’s know Hoyle you get on.

I have no intention of taking the glass out of my (used) door. It's usually essential for windows I think to get access to the frame, but for a door with no side panel, just a question of opening the door. I also have no plan to take the door off the hanges. It's definitely a 2 person job though.

EDIT- you could probably get away with securely attaching the door on either side and using expanding foam at the top, rather than removing the glass to fix it. That's how several large windows in my house are secured, and there's no apparent ill effects from not being screwed in at the top. in practice, there's usually a concrete lintel over a door/window, and drilling a load of holes into one of those when you don't have to probably isn't the greatest idea.

I'd be inclined to bring the brick in the 100mm or so either side and put the posts on that on top of the DPC; yes it's a speed bump in terms of making progress, but it keeps the post off the ground, helps protect it from water and hopefully means your shed will live longer. It'll take a few years, but the splashback from your posts resting on the ground will kill them.

Lumen

I used security hinges on my outward opening French doors. Even if the hinges are ground off, they can't be removed easily.

A brick is an effective countermeasure though 😄

One consideration with inward opening is whether you have clearance to open it all the way against the wall. I did have, then I put a load of stuff behind the door.

Seve OB

Frame done.

I'm going a bit of a different route with the door frame. The frame will be incorporated into the wall, and I'm going to put the breather membrane around the frame also, with the cladding (cementitious fibre-board) on top of that.

Basically trying to keep the water as far away from the timber (treated or not) as I possibly can. Because I'm lazy, and I don't want to do anything twice if I can help it, even 5-10 years later....

Furze99

Built sheds here and have doors opening inwards - but then we're a bit exposed to wind, so didn't want them swinging open or closed wildly.

Seve OB

I just hope the door fits 😨