Can Sinn Fein fix the housing crisis or is it beyond them or anybody else?

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119498948#Comment_119498948

We don't employ tradesmen outside of a handful to look after tenant maintenance and they don't even carry out that work, hired companies do. The same kind of thing Irish Water does and roads etc. We hire private contractors to build and maintain pretty much everything even the cleaning ffs. The Irish tories have been telling us that's cheaper...but if we apply the same model to social housing, it's suddenly more expensive? That wouldn't be a load of bollocks to protect investor pals of FF/FG and TD landlords and TD investors bleeding the tax payer now would it?

Why would the state pay over the odds for what foreign investors pay? Unless they are on the take of course.

If you believe buying is cheaper than building en masse you've really no clue. I suppose the Belgians are paying to have properties built for the craic.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119498937#Comment_119498937

I take it you don't earn over 100k

Irelandsnumberone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119498984#Comment_119498984

I don't but anyone earning over 100k can easily afford a few extra euros in tax a week

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119498978#Comment_119498978

One of the big inefficiencies with Irish Water was there inability to let go of staff after amalgamating the various council workers. And, funnily enough, paying the private sector more than the going rate for doing the work where they were brought in.

And you think SF will follow the Irish Water pattern with housing and be successful? (apart from who on the council side will have to manage all this, where a lot of councils won't be SF led anyway).

As I said, you're telling fairy stories, it's just in no way credible, and is not what SF will do anyway. It's a fever dream that PBP/Rise/etc. might be pushing.

SF's plan will be to shift the % more onto social housing and object less to building (though a few will break rank and object anyway, those will be fun times). The social housing list will remain stubbornly high as more and more people put themselves onto it in the hope of a forever home from the state. The cost to the exchequer will be more than if they didn't do anything with the same amount of people being housed as the constraint is on the supply side anyway.

They may bring in a vacant property tax, but very few will end up paying it.

The finances to do this will start to dry up after a couple of budgets and either taxes will need to start increasing even more than they have already increased them by then, or cuts will have to be made.

brokenangel

edit

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499006#Comment_119499006

Why? Someone on 100k is paying about 40 odd k in tax per year. The amount of tax you pay is inversely proportional to the benefit you get from that tax.

Personally I think people should pay less tax until the government can show some level of responsibility.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119498965#Comment_119498965

So Sinn Fein have rejected to houses all over Ireland 👍

The rejection have nothing to do with not been fit for family etc and you are perfectly aware of that.

Sinn Fein have rejected housing when possible because it is better for them for the housing crisis to continue. They will also continue to block houses and make more & more people homeless unless their supporters wake up and demand them to stop.

Some have already but then some just want to make excuses and point the finger.

The thread is about Sinn Fein after all isn’t it 👍

maccored

is this a thread about earning over 100 thousand a year instead of the title? I take all those complaining about it are earning that kind of money and know these things?

The only thing I can say about SF and housing is they'll probably try harder to help those who are affected by the housing crisis than the current government.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499037#Comment_119499037

The fairy tale of the Irish government hiring people and building houses is exactly that, a fairytale

What people seem to think is that Ireland is full of tradesmen that are hanging around doing nothing to get hired, well that’s not true so the government would have to outbid the private companies. Driving up wages on public and privates houses

Then if they hire all these people they will be entitled to a full state pension, which of course would be included in the cost of the house….well that’s along for 100 tradesmen on a building estate is going to cost what per house???? Let just say we will end up driving the price per unit through the roof plus slow down all building work currently going on.

Its fairytales made up by people on Twitter who have never walked on to near a site in their life

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119498870#Comment_119498870

I see I upset you when I pointed out the recent disaster with Sinn Fein when they promised to build houses

Sinn Fein told everyone to vote them into DCC so they could fix housing in Dublin, they also announced when they got the majority they would build housing and didn’t

As usual you point the finger at someone else because you won’t admit the abject failure of SF in DCC

We are also supposed to ignore the abject failure of SF in the North.

The number of things we are supposed to ignore because of the failure of Sinn Fein is growing isn’t it?

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499099#Comment_119499099

Did you miss Sinn Fein blocking every house possible?

Or when a party in the north tried to help renters they blocked that as well?

Or when running DCC they let huge debt grow up with non payment of rent so DCC couldn’t reinvest, while also not building any houses for DCC

Based on what makes you think SF have any interest in helping people stuck in the housing crisis?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119498870#Comment_119498870

Exactly.

We've had FG on their own, spouting new politics, have a go. Failed.

We've had the power swap in a C&S have a go. Failed

And we have had a tacit merger of FF & FG with the Greens have a go. Failed.

Now they want another go.

Delusional to think they can fix it.

cuttingtimber22

SF in opposition have damaged housing policy. They have taken a stance against the private sector market which ignores that private investment is needed. They have also been hugely disingenuous about the cause of the problem (economic growth and the legacy from the crash). Meanwhile, SF counsellors your and down the country are objecting to planning permission for housing. They have decent ideas but speak from both sides of their mouths.

hometruths

Any party could make a good dent in the housing problems by introducing a vacancy tax and allowing houses in mortgage arrears to be repossessed.

The problem is not a shortage of housing stock that can only be solved by building more.

It is the inefficient use of the existing housing stock. That is far more easily solved.

On form to date, no chance of FFG doing it, whether or not SF will remains to be seen.

But it is certainly not beyond them, or anybody else. It just requires a few politically unpopular decisions.

cuttingtimber22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499218#Comment_119499218

Where are these vacant houses? There are a **** load of vacant sites but there is a shortage of skilled labour.

I do believe there are solutions there. The tax system will need to be utilised. There needs to be clever stratuses particularly around brownfield sites but there is no silver bullet + private sector will need an element of profit to invest. Question is whether the State can help drive down costs?

Irelandsnumberone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499266#Comment_119499266

Walk through any town or city in Ireland. Vacant properties everywhere

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499266#Comment_119499266

The CSO reported 166,752 vacant houses and apartments in Census 2022.

https://www.cso.ie/en/census/census2022/census2022andvacantdwellingsfaq/

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499286#Comment_119499286

I suggest you look behind the numbers.

The highest percentages are in Leitrim/Roscommon/etc

You will find lots are classified as vacant but are for sale, up for rental etc

You will also find then loads are marked as vacant but are holidays homes

Then you will find loads are actually used for AirBnB etc

By the time all of that is removed, what you left with?

Good luck telling a mother with 3-4 kids living in Dublin she has a lovely new home in Leitrim

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499273#Comment_119499273

Yeah, they are vacant for a reason because a lot of people would prefer to sit in a hotel in Dublin than move to them.

The people who are buying up those houses are workers who can work remote, the government is better looking at further investment in remote working than bouncing around with the idea of vacant tax which is just another tax on the ordinary person, not the rich person. Again another tax been pushed for my Sinn Fein to hit the normal worker

cuttingtimber22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499273#Comment_119499273

Firstly, are they where people want to live?

Plus some different perspectives

Vacant properties ‘not silver bullet’ to housing crisis, expert warns

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/housing-planning/2022/06/24/vacant-properties-not-silver-bullet-to-housing-crisis-expert-warns/

Irelandsnumberone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499302#Comment_119499302

Any evidence of 'The highest percentages are in Leitrim/Roscommon/etc"

Irelandsnumberone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499311#Comment_119499311

Any evidence people are staying in hotel rooms rather than taking offers on houses?

Just remember most in hotel rooms are familys

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499302#Comment_119499302

You will find lots are classified as vacant but are for sale, up for rental etc

Lots indeed. Nearly 36k available for rent, and nearly 18k available for sale.

Part of the reason that politicians have failed to solve the housing crisis is they are happy to trot out the lie that there is nothing to see here, totally expected that we would find 36k properties empty on census because they between tenancies, and plenty of people believe that. Similiar story with those for sale.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499314#Comment_119499314

Just to take one of your experts arguments:

“Geographical variations is one. Areas where there are the highest numbers are also where there is less housing demand. They are skewed towards the midlands and the west. The numbers are lower in major cities.”

The numbers are lower in major cities as a whole but still way higher than you'd expect during a major housing crisis supposedly caused by a chronic lack of housing stock.

ANd if you look at the highest value areas in cities, the numbers paint a very different picture. Dublin has low numbers of vacancies relative to Leitrim because there are very few vacancies in Ballyfermot. There are a ton in the highest value areas.

Here is the breakdown by LEA in Dublin - the higher the demand area the higher the vacancy rate. Most of central Dublin is well over 8%, a lot in the teens and some areas have vacancy rates of nearly 20%.

Ballsbridge has a higher vacancy rate than Roscommon.

Irelandsnumberone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499390#Comment_119499390

Im shocked that the Govt defenders would lie and misrepresent things

Thanks for the clarification

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499390#Comment_119499390

How many of these vacant properties are actually been used for AirBnB?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499354#Comment_119499354

I never heard a politician say "nothing to see here"

So looking behind the numbers, what exactly do you think a vacant tax is going to achieve? how many houses will become available?

Im struggle to see from either post what number of houses/apartments are you saying is going to become available?

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499441#Comment_119499441

How many of these vacant properties are actually been used for AirBnB?

A sh*t load would be my guess. So there's some low hanging fruit for a start. Move homeless Dubliners out of hotels and into houses, and move tourists out of houses into hotels. As I said above, reallocate the existing resources efficiently.

And do i really need to point out that these airbnb's are not supposed to be operating as airbnbs precisely because there is a housing crisis? So it doesn't make sense to say, "Oh these vacancies won't help matters, sure they are mostly airbnbs"

So looking behind the numbers, what exactly do you think a vacant tax is going to achieve? how many houses will become available?

I can't tell you exactly how many will become available, but considerably more than are currently available. The bulk of those 35k rental properties for example. A good chunk of those 18k for sale properties. And there are 25k others. Most of that is low hanging fruit.

A vacancy tax will improve the vacancy position and that can only be a good thing. Madness to have high levels of vacancy in a housing crisis.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499488#Comment_119499488

”a sh*t load”🤦‍♂️

so you don’t know? Why would tourists move from AirBnB to hotels? And why would AirBnB landlords move tourists out either? They are income and the rental laws mean that landlord will not let tenants back in, they moved to AirBnB in the first place because it’s too risky to be a Landlord anymore

It’s baffling you want to bring in a new tax on people all over ireland, the farmer in Mayo etc that might have a family home down the end of a lane that nobody would ever live in apart from family on his etc, suddenly he has to pay a tax because you think “a sh*t load” of houses might become available in Dublin?

You said madness to have that level of vacancy but you don’t know what the level is?

This is the problem, a huge problem in Ireland, you are demanding a new tax with zero credible information. None of the parties have provided a detailed report to suggest what this addition tax will do in the housing crisis, none. Sinn Fein are pushing for this but like everything about Sinn Fein they have done nothing to confirm the numbers…

Maybe get the numbers, then demand a tax, because all I see is people getting screwed for having a house in the country that nobody would live in anyway

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499594#Comment_119499594

so you don’t know? Why would tourists move from AirBnB to hotels? And why would AirBnB landlords move tourists out either? They are income and the rental laws mean that landlord will not let tenants back in, they moved to AirBnB in the first place because it’s too risky to be a Landlord anymore.

The tourists would move to hotels because locals would be living in houses and not hotels. Pretty simple really.

Of course airbnb landlords would not welcome moving the tourists out, but if a government enforced the laws that are currently in place, they would not be operating an airbnb in the first place. The thread is about whether it is possible to fix the housing crisis, not about what airbnb landlords want,

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499594#Comment_119499594

It’s baffling you want to bring in a new tax on people all over Ireland, the farmer in Mayo etc that might have a family home down the end of a lane that nobody would ever live in apart from family on his etc, suddenly he has to pay a tax because you think “a sh*t load” of houses might become available in Dublin?

Very simple solution to that. Apply vacancy tax in RPZ's only. I totally agree no point taxing somebody for leaving a property vacant because nobody wants to live in it. The point of the tax would be to free up houses that people do want to live in. It is very straightforward to introduce a tax to do exactly that.

The idea that a vacancy tax is impractical because it is too complex to legislate for, or too difficult to enforce is a total red herring

This is the problem, a huge problem in Ireland, you are demanding a new tax with zero credible information.

The information is the census gathered by the Central Statistics Office. Their counts indicate vacancy rates way in excess of what you'd expect in a housing crisis.

This is another red herring on the subject, the idea that we don't know, we don't have sufficient information, it's total horsesh*t.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499037#Comment_119499037

No it wasn't. The Dept. of the Environment oversaw councils with minimal staff, hiring contractors. We now have IW, using the same council staff and more, to oversee contractors. IW has/had many problems, a lot of them crony. Council staff weren't digging holes and laying pipe before or after IW. The bonuses for nothing were brought in by IW.

What are you on about? We don't build roads, bridges or lay water pipe. We pay others to do it for us. The same should be true of building social and affordable. You are the one shilling fairytales.

Nobody will try block housing that's fit for purpose except the likes of the off Green/FG/FF NIMBY as we've seen even when they have housing rigged.

People are currently getting a forever home as you put it. FF/FG/Greens are supply luxury D4 apartments. I for one think that's a waste of tax payer money. And if you think people chancing their arm for a free house is the main problem you haven't a clue. Every party knows there's a crisis and it's not a sham. Varadkar even agreed with Higgins ffs.

We cannot continue the FF/FG/Green Ponzi scheme indefinitely. We are using taxes to subsides rentals and purchases for working people who cannot afford them themselves. We have international and homegrown housing speculators making a guaranteed fortune off of the state. We can't keep that up.