Broke wrist at work in creche, doctor says rest required, employer won't pay while off work

JackN · 22-08-2022 3:40pm #1

A young foreign lady is staying in our house and I post this question on her behalf:

She is employed in a Dublin creche since last October, so she has only 9 months of PRSI contributions.

She fell last week on a wet surface while at work and broke her wrist. Her doctor told she should not work for six weeks. Her employer tells her that she will not be paid while she is out and she must apply to the Social Welfare for help. However, it is my understanding that she needs at least 2 years of PRSI contributions before she is entitled to any support from Social Welfare and therefore she will receive no help there.

My question is: Does the creche have an obligation to compensate her for lost income since the injury occurred while she was at work on their premises?

Thanks for any opinions.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy · 22-08-2022 3:41pm

No, but it will form part of any compensation claim

22-08-2022 3:47pm

If she has no income and doesn't qualify for illness benefit she can try and make a claim for Supplementary Welfare Allowance.

The creche isn't obliged to pay her and my guess is they won't as it would be seen as an admission of liability if she puts in a personal injury claim against them.

I'd also advise her to brush up her CV. In all likelihood she will be let go before her 12 months probation is up.

dabbler2004 · 22-08-2022 3:50pm

I think that you're correct in saying that she won't have enough PRSI contributions for Illness Benefit. Did the creche give her a contract if employment that states what their illness/absence policy is? If the creche doesn't have an illness policy to pay employees who are out then there is no obligation afaik.

She could get in touch with a Community Welfare Officer, they can pay out discretionary amounts to those in need on a case by case basis

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/community_welfare_officers.html

Eoinbmw · 22-08-2022 3:51pm

Tell her talk to a solicitor!

Deeec · 22-08-2022 3:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058259871/broke-wrist-at-work-in-creche-doctor-says-rest-required-employer-wont-pay-while-off-work

Its only a broken wrist which doesnt need rest for 6 weeks being honest. Could she ask the creche to put her on admin duties/kitchen duties or looking after older children that dont require nappy changes, lifting etc. If she doesnt intend making a claim and really wants to go back to the role she should try and find a way of getting back to work as soon as possible. Taking 6 weeks off for a broken wrist is pushing it.

gipi · 22-08-2022 4:11pm

She may be eligible for occupational injury benefit, which doesn't require the same level of PRSI as illness benefit.

I suggest she applies, even to have it on record as an occupational injury.

She should apply for illness benefit even if she doesn't qualify, as she may get PRSI credits while she's out of work

As others have mentioned, she may qualify for SWA.

Mrs OBumble · 22-08-2022 4:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119505898#Comment_119505898

Don't take this advice.

If a doctor satscthis break needs 6 weeks rest, then it needs 6 weeks.

As a foreigner here, she should have travel insurance which will get her home if necessary.

Allinall · 22-08-2022 4:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119505898#Comment_119505898

Terrible advice, unless you are a doctor and have examined the person in question.

Deeec · 22-08-2022 6:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119506086#Comment_119506086

Im speaking as someone who broke their wrist and continued to work. Maybe I was lucky but my other arm still worked, my 2 legs still worked, my brain still worked and I could still talk, see and hear. No way did I need to sit on my bum for 6 weeks doing nothing in order to recover. People work and kids go to school with broken wrists all the time . Doctors are always happy to give notes to sign people off work for all sorts when its not needed - all you have to do is ask the doctor and they will sign you off. This lady could easily do admin which is abundant in a creche.

Im wondering how will she even cope at home with her broken wrist - will she need a carer to wash, dress, cook, feed her, wipe her bum? ( joking obviously)

Come on to take 6 weeks off work for a broken wrist is really taking advantage of the situation.

Allinall · 22-08-2022 6:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119506555#Comment_119506555

Who’s taking advantage?

Shes not getting paid and will struggle to get social welfare support.

Shes taking her doctors advice, which is the correct thing to do.

Your experience has zero relevance.

Kalimah · 22-08-2022 6:32pm

How could you do admin with one hand? Type away two fingered on a pc? Bizarre. Anyway under insurance rules she wouldn’t be allowed to work in the crèche if she’s been signed off. The fracture might have been complicated too. You’d very likely need physio after the cast has been removed particularly if there was soft tissue damage.

I feel sorry for the girl. Sounds like an obnoxious place to work if they won’t pay her anything when she’s out injured.

Deeec · 22-08-2022 6:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119506591#Comment_119506591

I easily done accounts work with one hand - why not? Genuine people continue to work and wouldnt let something like a broken wrist stop them. The job is adjusted to their needs

This lady appears to have made no effort to try to reach an agreement to work - just expects to sit back on social welfare or hopes that her employer will pay her. This may shock you but not every work place accident is the fault of the employer - some are the employees fault. Her employer is 100% right not to pay her. I sense shes preparing for a claim!

sprucemoose · 22-08-2022 6:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119506626#Comment_119506626

its 'did' not 'done'

and typing is not easy to do with just one hand so it probably isnt an option. who said the person in question didnt ask for their job to be adjusted temporarily? the chances are that nothing could be done to keep this person at work, even in a different role. if it is her dominant hand then she may very well be incredibly limited in what she can actually do. saying 'genuine people continue to work' is a bit ridiculous when it would seem this person is benefitting in pretty much no way from the situation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119506591#Comment_119506591

exactly. im guessing the other poster is one of those who will still come into work when dying of a cold/the flu and put others in danger

Ginger83 · 22-08-2022 7:12pm

She needs to speak to a solicitor about a case for loss of income against the creches insurance

Starfire20 · 22-08-2022 7:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119506626#Comment_119506626

yes, she should go to work injured and risk complicating the recovery process because the most important thing here is to make sure the business isn't inconvenienced even though it was a work place injury...and doctors, what would they know, right? I'm sure your anecdote trumps their medical expertise.

smh

Deeec · 22-08-2022 7:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119506798#Comment_119506798

6 weeks rest for a broken wrist is taking the piddle. Its so easy to get a Doctor to sign you off work whether you need to be signed off or not. If the OP said she needed 1 or 2 weeks off I would have some sympathy.

Will she be resting for 6 weeks - not a chance she'll be out living her best life because she will be well able to do so and fair play to her. Arm in a sling and there wont be a bother on her. Eh maybe she'll even manage to fit in a holiday.

It would seem lots of posters hear love feeding the claims culture and driving insurance costs up for all.

Liberty_Bear · 22-08-2022 7:33pm

Take into account habitual residency requirements

Call Citizens Info as they are trained advocates too :)

Starfire20 · 22-08-2022 7:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119506879#Comment_119506879

ah yes, how dare she not follow the advise of a qualified medical professional. She should get back to generating revenue for her employer as soon as possible.

Jim_Hodge · 22-08-2022 7:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119506972#Comment_119506972

Generating revenue for her employers? So working for a wage. Says it all.

I've never come across anybody out for 6 weeks with a broken wrist. It dies seem excessive to be honest.

Starfire20 · 22-08-2022 8:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119506991#Comment_119506991

not at all. 6 weeks is pretty standard for a broken bone but at the end of the day, a doctor has deemed her unfit for work for 6 weeks while it heals.

whether you think it's excessive or not is irrelevant.

the employer trying to wash their hands of any responsibility, despite it being a work place accident, is despicable imo

beachhead · 22-08-2022 8:36pm

Good advice to make an occupational injury claim with Social Welfare as it's important not to have any breaks in PRSI record.At moment it's optional for employers to pay for sick leave,having regard to whatever an employment contain might allow.Leo Varadkar is working it to make employers pay some form of sickness benefit.Probably depends on his re-election though to push all the clauses through the Dail.

JackN · 22-08-2022 8:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119506991#Comment_119506991

Thanks for all the opinions.

Just for clarification: I believe she has a doctor's cert for 3 weeks. Then she will have her next appointment to see how it is healing. My understanding is that the doctor said she might be out for up to 6 weeks.

Jim_Hodge · 22-08-2022 8:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119507361#Comment_119507361

She'll be in plaster for 6 weeks certainly but I honestly never came across somebody out of work for the six weeks.

22-08-2022 8:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119507320#Comment_119507320

Nope......that law has been enacted & should be 'up & running' by mid September. It'll be 70% of pay for 3days in 2022...... then 5days in 2023, 7days in 2024& 10days from 2025 on. Makes sense really following on from the early months of the pandemic...... but really it wouldn't make much difference to the young lady of thread as her entitlement to SW would be an issue.

As regards the moronic comment re going back to work with a broken wrist sooner than medical advice ......i can only assume he/she is trolling.....obviously one of those people that learnt nothing from covid

Akrasia · 22-08-2022 9:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119507447#Comment_119507447

The employer has insurance, she needs to make a claim against their insurance, If there was a wet, slippery surface that caused the accident and this wasn't caused by the woman's own carelessness, then she'll likely win and her damages are assessed by the PIAB using the following guidelines

https://www.piab.ie/eng/news-publications/Corporate-publications/General%20Guidelines%20-%20Revised%20October%202016.pdf

If there was contributary negligence then the insurance company may challenge liability and a judge may reduce the award, also the claimant may seek higher awards by going to court.

In the meantime, while the claim is in progress, if she is left with no income while she cannot work, the local Community welfare officer may be able to help.

BattleCorp · 22-08-2022 9:35pm

The creche are under no legal obligation to pay wages while someone is out sick or injured, even if it is 100% the fault of the creche (which it may or may not be in this instance).

That said, the creche, by not paying her, are pretty much forcing the employee to put in a claim to recover lost wages etc. Paying wages while someone is out injured in these types of circumstances wouldn't be taken as being an admission of liability by the court so the creche could pay her if they wanted to.

If the employee is in the right, I would advise lodging a claim with PIAB. It can be done by the injured party, but I'd recommend getting a solicitor to do it. They'll charge a fee that has to be paid out of any award (if any is made) but it's often worth it. One word of warning. Putting in a claim might make working in the creche when she recovers awkward as creches tend to be small businesses and small businesses tend to take these things personally.

BattleCorp · 22-08-2022 9:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119507581#Comment_119507581

The Personal Injury Guidelines were released in early 2021 and have taken over from the old Book of Quantum you have linked to. Some of the figures have been lowered considerably, especially for things like whiplash. The amounts awarded for the more moderate and serious wrist injuries haven't been altered too much but the minor end of the scale has seen a big change.