Messy Sister in Law

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119508315#Comment_119508315

we are making a lot of assumptions about her husband. I know from experience what it is like being in a relationship with a farmer (Dairy in this case) and the pressure of milking and calving. From his point of view 70 cattle waiting to be milked or 3 heifers all giving birth in the same night is bigger pressure than a dirty house. As far as he is aware his kids are ok, and his wife is a stay at home wife and not heading out to work everyday like he is. But he could also be burying his head in the sand , and the farm is a kind of respite...... its a very difficult subject to broach if you're partner becomes obese and the house turns into a dump. Maybe if he broaches the subject with her it turns into a row? But again it is all assumptions here so none of us really know. Too easy to say "he should be doing this" or "she should be doing that".

I think they need a break together, followed by some professional advice and good help from the kind OP to help clear out the houses.

I know it's different but my daughter had her 2nd baby last year, 18 months after her first, so 2 kids under 2. She got post natal depression. Her house suffered big time, her husband was working remotely with a foreign company on foreign time. Anytime I went down to her (3 hours away) I took rubber gloves, cleaning products and black sacks! I cleaned the house each time, cleared out baby clothes that were too small, put on the wash, hoovered, washed dishes, cleaned fridge etc. I didn't exactly enjoy it but she said every time I left she just felt so relieved by the house being in shape. One year later she's flying it.

SAMTALK

No way should Tusla be involved in this. The kids are under no threat by all accounts and Tusla are overwhelmed as it is

4 kids, mother in law to be cared for and a husband who seems under pressure would break the best of us.

Maybe sit down with SIL and ask how she is coping as her husband is under pressure with farm/ mother , and you dont know how you'd cope under these circumstances. This might be the opening she needs

Princess Calla

I suspect the sister in law is extremely lonely.

Husband gone from early morning to late, I'd imagine the days all start to roll into one.

Then the "what's the point" type thinking begins to start "yeah I could tidy up, but it will be as bad in an hour, yeah I could make a meal from scratch but no one will eat it."

It's an awful feeling when you are aware that your house is messy and someone visits and the look of disapproval is written all over their face.

It's obvious that everyone in the family has decided to write them off as fat and lazy instead of trying to do something productive.

Did the grandparents on noticing things were going down hill say "let's take the kids for a day/weekend/ week" give them some personal time. I suspect not, it's easier to judge from an ivory tower than to actually help. I bet your sil never gets to meet friends for coffee etc or if she does all the kids are tagging along so she never gets a break.

It's very hard to keep motivated when you know next week/next month is going to look exactly the same and there's nothing to look forward to.

bottlebrush

For starters would they be open to the suggestion of getting in a cleaner a few hours a week, or could they afford it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119509010#Comment_119509010

Yet he can still find time to go and look after his mother, which is the point you ignored.

Wanderer78

some professionals required there, from therapists and what not.....

miamee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119509367#Comment_119509367

This sounds like one of the better suggestions to sit down and talk with her about how both she and her husband are coping. Death of a parent (for him) and the subsequent illness of his mother requiring him to look in on her every day is a lot of pressure for him as well as for his wife now left to cope with things at home that maybe they used to do together or shared responsibility for. Add in isolation due to Covid, family no longer visiting where they used to do and she probably is in a very lonely rut that she cannot get out of. She's probably well aware of the situation she is in and might just need someone to talk to, to give her some support and to be there for her.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119510265#Comment_119510265

You're saying that like he's heading out for a round of golf, the woman has dementia and we have no idea if there are any other family members nearby who can take over from him to give him a break.

SAMTALK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119510265#Comment_119510265

Find time ? It's his mother and she needs looking after. I dont think this is like a hobby he can just give up

We dont know how much or how little he does in the house but he seems to have a lot going on himself and trying to support a family of 4 kids. Put more pressure on him and who knows how that will end

I think a gentle chat with SIL broached in a casual way is probably the best way to go (or a quiet word with BIL to see what he thinks re SIL)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511009#Comment_119511009

My point is, if there are family members who are close enough to take a week off work to go and clean the house, why not take his mother for a couple of weeks instead and give the whole family some respite.

The OP stated in the opening post that her husband's family do live nearby so he shouldn't be the only one caring for his mother. I know, I've cared for a parent with dementia myself. So why aren't his siblings taking more of their share of responsibility for their mother? The OP says he spends a couple of hours a day with her. HE needs to sort that out with his siblings. And then he can give more time to his own family.

His wife most likely feels that she is the very last priority in his life, after his farm, and his mother. And she'd be right to feel that way.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119510265#Comment_119510265

I didn't ignore it. I just thought the fact his mother has dementia meant it goes without saying she needs to be minded. He is probably in a rota with family. His wife is decades younger and able bodied and can feed and clothe herself. His mother can't. I am currently in this situation with my own mother who has dementia.

I am not trying to score points here, I am just saying I know what its like being in a relationship with a farmer and the long hours involved. He is also the only one bringing in an income ............ that can't be ignored. His wife definitely needs help and support, I am not for one minute disputing that. He probably does too.

zg3409

I think before you suggest you clean up and for her to lose weight you I suggest you become friends first.

Invite her out kid free for tea and cake or an evening meal. Find out what her hobbies are and what she likes to do. Then you could offer to take the kids for an afternoon. All these things won't offend and won't get you in the bad books. She might offer some insights or options on how you could help. Going in and cleaning may not be what she really needs initially. Find out what she needs and get it for her. Even a date night with husband once a month might solve 90% of the issues without getting hands dirty. Putting one or all kids into summer camp or Easter camp or whatever could make the difference or having an extended Christmas at relations.

I would avoid conflict particularly if you are not yet on friend terms.

rosietee

Thank you for all your replies. Rather than reply individually I will reply to everyone to try and address issues raised:

• The 4 children range in age from 6 to 12 so they are past the baby stages. The husband brings the children out on the farm alot so she does have free time away from the children. She does go out shopping and meet family members for coffee/meals etc. The problem is she ignores the housework. Just does enough to scrape by - like washes clothes (but doesnt sort them just leaves them in a pile for kids to grab), loads dishwasher etc. She ignores hoovering, tidying up, cleaning surfaces so everything is left wherever its put down - nothing has its place. Its cluttered, messy, disorganised. For example her utility room is so cluttered there is only a path to the washing machine and dryer. He kitchen has no free counter space at all. It really needs to be seen to be believed.
• For clarification my SIL is my husbands sister so we have no responsibility for my sisters in laws mother in law as we are not related to her!
• Sweet Maggie I think you understand the situation best - her husband is busy out with the farm. It not like he can just decide to take a day off and not look after the animals. Farming isnt like that - its a 7 days week job. He could perhaps look for help on the farm if they can afford this financially - I have no idea of their finances. Farming is their only income.
• Her Husbands mother with dementia - his siblings do help out with her care but each have to do a few hours per day. She needs 24 hour care which is done mostly by family with a small amount of help from carers. Anyone who has ever cared for someone with dementia will know thats its hard work. Again this is not something he can just give up.
• The husband does take Sunday afternoons off. They normally take the kids somewhere and have dinner out so its not like he ignores them completely.
• Getting a cleaner - yes Im sure this could be done but the house isnt ready for a cleaner yet. The clutter needs to be cleared out before the house can be cleaned if you get what I mean. She has way to much stuff that is not needed and she seems to have difficulties parting with and sorting clothes. For example in her kitchen on her counter tops she has 3 coffee machines taking up alot of space but she or her husband do not drink coffee ! This is replicated all over the house in that she has several of everything for no reason. The kids rooms are heaving with unsorted clothes as she doesnt get rid of or vacuum pack clothes that doesnt fit them. Same with toys everywhere that are now longer played with. This is something we could help her with.
• Her parents and family taking the kids overnight for a weekend- this is already happens. Her parents have tried to discuss things with her and try to help her but it has being taken quite badly by her - she gets defensive. Everyone is hoping as I get on well with her and that im an in-law that she may listen to me and be more open to discuss change. Im nervous that I will offend her though and I dont want that.
• I think the issue is depression and the situation in the house has got on top of her. She possibly has a tendancy to hoard aswell. Sadly there are some days she doesnt even bother to get dressed. I think she does know how bad it is in that other than family noone else is allowed visit. She doesnt know where to start so its easier to just sit back watch telly, eat and do nothing. Hopefully she will agree to take help we offer and agree to visit her GP.

Thank you to everyone for your suggestions. We are hoping we can help her out and get her back on track. I hope to be able to update this post in few weeks.🙏👋

Jequ0n

I think you are genuinely trying to help, but every time you post the judgment becomes very apparent.

I don’t mean this as criticism, but if it is obvious to us then it will be even more obvious to her.

Someone suggested to befriend her. That might be the best approach before you try to address the issues at hand.

Best of luck Rosietee with this problem, its not easy for anyone, and yes it would be nice to hear an update in a few weeks!

Deeec

Best if luck op.

Princess Calla

Going by your most recent update I genuinely believe you are not equipped to dealing with the issues at hand (I don't think any of us would be).

Until you find the root cause for her need to hoard stuff and buy unnecessary items the situation will never be solved.

The same with her weight. Until you find the reason for the over eating and poor food choices she'll never lose weight and keep it off.

She needs therapy, this isn't someone stuck in a rut overwhelmed as I initially thought.

You could gut the house tomorrow, hire a skip put everything in it and start fresh. I'd bet the farm within 6 months you'll be back to current situation.

Hoarding and overeating are both mental illnesses and no amount of decluttering or dieting will help until the triggers are found and addressed.

Ave Sodalis

@rosietee

The 4 children range in age from 6 to 12 so they are past the baby stages. The husband brings the children out on the farm alot so she does have free time away from the children. She does go out shopping and meet family members for coffee/meals etc. The problem is she ignores the housework. Just does enough to scrape by - like washes clothes (but doesnt sort them just leaves them in a pile for kids to grab), loads dishwasher etc. She ignores hoovering, tidying up, cleaning surfaces so everything is left wherever its put down - nothing has its place. Its cluttered, messy, disorganised. For example her utility room is so cluttered there is only a path to the washing machine and dryer. He kitchen has no free counter space at all. It really needs to be seen to be believed.

Can I be honest, this sounds a little like my house. I have a hidden physical disability. To most people, including family members, I look and act like a healthy and capable young person. The reality is that I cannot cope with some things, and I don't even have children to worry about (although I do work). My house isn't a health hazard, but it's certainly rarely to visitor receiving standard, and many of the things above apply to me. I could write out a full post explaining it but I'm not going to waste people's time. What it boils down to is that majority of people don't realise (or believe) it, but I have super limited energy supplies (and big consequences if I ignore it) and what can be done has to be prioritised. Housework is like painting the golden gate bridge. Even if I quit my job, never socialised, never exercised, took zero care of myself and only focused on housework, I'd still never be fully on top of it.

I am not, but many people with my type of illness end up overweight because it's difficult to exercise or cook well when some days even just standing up is an achievement. Yeah, with all the extra "things" lying around, it seems more mental than physical but I can still strongly empathise. Someone coming in to criticise or tell me what to do, or even randomly offering to help clean the house would leave me humiliated and shut down.

It doesn't take a much perception to tell the difference between someone offering help to be kind, and someone offering help for their own benefit or out of disgust.

Having an open and honest conversation with her about her health is usually the first step, but it needs to be done tactfully and without condescension or taking away whatever self worth she still has. Expressing genuine concern about her coping with everything now her husband is away so much and sincerely asking if there's anything you can do to help as a human being, is a far cry away from asking her if she wants help because she's embarrassing you and you're fed up like her parents. If you feel you can't talk to her about it, or that she won't open up, there's a few things you can try.

If you approached your SIL from the perspective that you had a day spare and got a cleaning buzz and wondered if she wanted any help around the house, she will probably be more open to it. It's not coming across that you're being burdened with helping her, it's not coming across that you're looking down at her or are fed up with her (like your posts do), it's both of you on equal footing. Or that you're collecting for a charity shop run, and wondered had she anything to donate and since you're the one asking, you'll help. Basically, anything that still gives her some control over the situation.

But, as Princess Calla says, if there are underlying issues, they need to be addressed and sometimes the best thing you can do is just be a support.

HildaOgdenx

Mod Note - As the OP is not looking for any further advice on how to approach or help out we'll lock the thread to save it turning into a blog.

Best of luck, OP, hope all goes well.

Thanks to all who offered advice.

Hilda