Smith Family Derry - Research Help Req'd

Rmulvany

Looking for help researching a family tree branch, I've hit a snag and am not sure what I may be missing.

My research angle is coming from Charles Smith.

In 1901 he is living on Union Street Derry, with his widowed mother Catherine, 2 sisters Susan and Ellen, 1 brother Patrick, and a border.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/No__4_Urban__West_Ward/Union_Street/1537986/

In 1911 the family is now on Rossville Street Derry but the same members are present. This time we see that Charles' wife Mary (née Hegarty) is living with them

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Londonderry_Urban__4_/Rossville_Street/603845/

I know from Charles and Mary's wedding cert that Charles' father is Patrick Smith (laborer).

But this is where my trail ends... I cannot find any birth records for Susan, Charles, Ellen Jane, or Patrick. Nor can I find a death record for their father.

I wouldn't mind a hand with this, I could be missing something such as maybe the children don't share the same father, perhaps their births weren't recorded.

Note: I haven't checked for records on Roots as my sub has lapsed, no records of note are coming up on Ancestry.

Elwyn

I have looked for the births too but cannot find them, nor can I find a death certificate for Patrick. Possibly the family weren’t big on registering births & deaths. Perhaps Patrick died outside Ireland? (Many folk from that area went to Scotland for work).

You could perhaps check with St Columbs and St Eugene’s in Derry to see if they have baptisms for the children. 

Charles appears to have died on 14.2.1939 and is buried in the Derry city cemetery Section M Class D no 955.  Charles N. Hagan, of the same address, aged 5 months is also buried there. Died 16.5.1940. Also Margaret Smyth aged 3 months died 9.8.1926 & Mary Smyth aged 9 months died 19.3.1919. Family address in 1939, 10 The Huts, Shantallow, Derry. No sign of burials for his parents.

Rmulvany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119508407#Comment_119508407

Thanks for looking into this with me.

I had indeed found the Derry City Cemetery records for Charles, and his daughters Mary and Margaret. Also his grandson P. McCallion.

I had forgotten to look in to who Mary McCloskey and Charles Hagan are. They have to be connected in someway to Charles

Hermy

Welcome to Boards @Elwyn - good first post!

I've had a quick look at this myself in case there was something obvious being missed but I'm afraid I'm coming up with nothing so far.

pinkypinky

Checked Rootsireland and none of the births are coming up there either. Scotland is a good shout to try.

Ideas:

Have you considered MacGowan?

Do a search with just the first name for the suspected year of birth and scan through them all - perhaps there'll be a hideous mistranscription.

Do you know what Catherine's birth surname is? If so, look under that name in case she and the father never married.

I'd be looking for other children too because there's a mighty gap between Charles and Ellen Jane, although not quite the same gap on 1911 as 1901.

55Gem

Also worth keeping in mind the place of birth of the children changes from Co Derry to Derry City from 1901 to 1911 except for Patrick, he's Derry City in both.

Rmulvany

It is a rather curious case 🧐

PinkyPinky good point regarding McGowan, would 1900 not be rather 'modern' to anglicize a surname?

Scotland will also be investigated, though why would they not relate this on the 2 censuses.

I may have found a marriage cert for Susan Smyth. The residence is Rossville Street and this matches, the father's details on the cert are not entered. This may add to the possibility that each child was born to Catherine Smith and no father recorded

pinkypinky

It might be, but since there's nothing obvious here, we have to consider it.

I think there's a strong possibility of no father in the picture.

Have you searched for a marriage between Patrick Smith and Catherine?