Ministerial Pensions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119527054#Comment_119527054

As opposed to the commitment that teachers, nurses, police, firemen have to their careers? What is it that politicians are doing that is so much more difficult/stressful?

Genuinely curious to hear your reasoning.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119527546#Comment_119527546

I hear form filling out can be stressful 😮

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119527465#Comment_119527465

So much misinformation here.

For a start, you're talking about the pre-2013 pension scheme. Teachers recruited from the last nine years and into the future are on the Single Pension Scheme, which provides nothing near those benefits.

For those pre-2013 teachers, they would need 40 years full service (no breaks to mind kids or elderly parents, no part time posts, which most teachers will have to endure for their first few years) to retire on half salary.

On their career breaks, they can purchase notional service at full actuarial cost.

Maybe you should go along to the next Renua meeting in a phone box near you to see if they'll get moving again.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119527522#Comment_119527522

I'll give you another hint. It's a meaningless comparison.

Your teacher accepted a contract of employment with specific salary and pension details. That's in the contract, so that's what they get in their pension.

For your private sector worker, a lot will depend on the investment return and charges on the fund.

I'll give you another hint - a post-2013 teacher with get feck-all pension when it comes to retirement under the Single Pension Scheme.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119527546#Comment_119527546

I'm not saying that other PS workers don't have commitment to their jobs.

As I said I have no objection to a review of politicians overall package including salary, expenses and pension.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119527573#Comment_119527573

Are you confusing me with your research assistant? Trying having a little bit of manners if you want to have a constructive discussion.

Your fund will only be wiped out if you choose a high-risk pension fund. If you choose a low risk bond fund, it won't be wiped out. If you're in your pension for 40 years, there will be peaks and troughs. You'll buy lots of units in the troughs which will recover their value for the peaks. You'll realign your basket of funds as you approach retirement to minimise risk.

If you want to compare a post-2013 teacher against the average private sector fund, the private fund has a good chance of beating the teacher.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119527615#Comment_119527615

So when you find you’re not getting anywhere by analysing the detail, you step away and try a vague broad attack. Thanks for the negotiation advice though.

batman75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119527165#Comment_119527165

That's the pension for a Taoiseach. Wage is I think 212K.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119526741#Comment_119526741

You may well be right about SF, but I'll reserve judgement for the moment. After all, FF is appalling now and has been for a long time, but they were a reforming government from when they got into power in 1932 until around the time WW II started. They kept building housing for workers up until the 1960s.

If SF do good stuff for 5 or 10 years, I'll take that. If they don't, I'll be the first to complain.

In the meantime, all my complaints are aimed at the people who have run the country for the last 100 years. Guirke should of course be deselected, but I won't let his activities distract me from who the real culprits are in today's Ireland.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119528686#Comment_119528686

Which is insane.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119527599#Comment_119527599

The contract is the contract though. Govt can't walk away from a contract. These employees accepted a job offer with a particular balance of salary and pension. In broad terms, many of them would have accepted a lower salary than they could get elsewhere, balanced by the higher pension. You can't just decide that you don't like one particular part of the contract now.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119527592#Comment_119527592

Why aren't private funds guaranteed? Maybe you'd better ask private employers, not me? Why would I be responsible for poor employment conditions in the private sector?

You might want to fully understand the relatively poor benefits of the Single Pension Scheme for those who joined from 2013 onwards, and who had the terms of this scheme built into their contracts too.

Government will find it very difficult to switch from DB to DC. To do so would require them to continue to pay DB benefits for current generation of retirees, while also paying DC contributions for current generation of employees. This would be doubling up of pension costs for about 30-40 years. Try selling that to any Minister of Finance.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119529599#Comment_119529599

When the average salary in Facebook Ireland is €150k, it's not hugely out of step to suggest that the Taoiseach should be on €200k.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119530244#Comment_119530244

Not to mention the $25m pa compensation package the Facebook CEO collects while nominally on $1 pa.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/facebook-ceo-mark-zuckerbergs-base-pay-stays-at-1-but-total-compensation-rises-to-253-million-2021-04-12

Makes Ireland Inc. CEO look like a bargain.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119530244#Comment_119530244

Is the wage not higher than most around the world not even similar scale size country like the USA think the Potus gets less ? I mean outside of dictators and dody places.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119531601#Comment_119531601

So what are you asking?

The comparison was made with a standard job here in Ireland and based on that the wage would be correct

Now you want to compare to other countries? Because you didn’t get the answer you wanted first time?

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119527678#Comment_119527678

i seen these very same arguments been fired out by people when the nurses wanted a pay rise in 2019.

Now post covid they won’t mention nurses but it’s the teachers 🤦‍♂️

Day in day our people are on boards complaining about what others earn. Why don’t they go do their job then? Probably because like I’m aware been a teacher is hard so it’s easier just to sit on internet and complain about them and try to screw them kn wages etc. never mind the next generations education. After all we keep getting told by Sinn Fein it’s awful if someone can get a private education

These thread are all the same a group of people examining what a teacher/nurse/Garda earns and complaining while never admitting what they earn or how they get reimbursed

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119531601#Comment_119531601

US President gets 400k plus many other benefits and the earning potential after office is vey high.

https://www.voanews.com/a/usa_all-about-america_how-much-american-presidents-really-cost-us-taxpayers/6174167.html

Not really comparable to Ireland for a variety of reasons.

An example closer to home is Scotland with about the same population as us.

Nicola Sturgen's salary is c. €185,000

arctictree

A relative of mine took a pension from a state redundancy scheme in the 80s. 40 years later and hes still being paid! And he only worked there for 5 years or so. Colossal waste of money. Yet, the Govt. at the time probably boasted that they were getting tough and reducing head count.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533830#Comment_119533830

The State doesn't pay redundancy. Where did he work?

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119530210#Comment_119530210

Yet the unions can threaten to strike unless the tax payer is fleeced for another 10% pay rise over inflation, no mention of improved work practices or nothing given back in return., I don't see anything about paying pay rises so one sector can chase what will turn out to be temporary inflation that in their contract. You cant have it both ways.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119531763#Comment_119531763

The same group of people who live here, who pay tax here, who have kids here and who know the debt built up will be paid back by their kid and grand kids due to a decade and a half of can kicking and borrowing on the never never for expenses like ministerial pensions that the man on the street would never be able to afford. The can cannot be kicked any more due to interest rates rising and tht will kick this countries finances when rollover time comes on the debt. At some point the amount we pay per person in tax, the amount spent per person by our government and the amount borrowed per person will all reach a tipping point (and it is coming) and we are having a really good summer with regards to employment and tax returns but this mainly due to the covid borrowing 30Billion borrowed to keep monies flowing into pockets, this option is now gone the printing press has been turned off by the ECB. Lets see what happens when the recession kicks in this winter. The fact is what we pay out in public service pay and pensions cannot be afforded, what we pay out in welfare can not be afforded and what we are paying in tax can not be afforded and what we get in return as a civilian here with regards to services is p1ss poor and in a lot of cases if you want something decent you have to pay again, for example private health care. The reason why people continue to look at the public sector is because they are paid very well (20% more on average than the private sector), they will be protected from redundancies when they become an avalanche in the private sector (already we are up 8% in Q1 2022) and they will walk off with a pension that the majority in the private sector cannot afford to pay for themselves, yet their taxes cover the short fall needed to cover the cost of pensions in the public sector which is very wrong.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119534205#Comment_119534205

eh really so they never offered it. I call bullsh1t on that one. The offered voluntary redundancies after the last crash. it was rampant no thought put into who was offered redundancies, everyone in the sector got offered it and when gaps appeared as there are some good people working in the sector and some had to be rehired on higher wage as a contractor. They also offered early retirement as well, while the rest of us mere mortals see our age of retirement creeping up. By the time my kids gets ti retirement they may be over 70 before they can retire.

https://www.gov.ie/en/circular/981e41e66d5347dbb3914230c2f13925/

https://circulars.gov.ie/pdf/circular/hse/2010/11.pdf

https://assets.gov.ie/35067/7f1d75ab9ccf47ab9ed13ae80e73b502.pdf

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119536180#Comment_119536180

We have 300,000 working in Public sector. That 13% of the entire workforce.

Currently if I go onto Public Jobs over 283 positions available. We have a lack of teachers all across Ireland.

Yet any of these conversations always go with the "cut the wages".

The wages over private, I have no idea and seems to be from reports. But you honestly trying to tell me the people working in IT and pharma are earning less than public sector?

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119536445#Comment_119536445

The fact is that public sector salaries are on average 20% more than private sector ones. They have a guaranteed pension and job security which are conditions that the private sector in the majority of cases cannot offer. The numbers are there in the CSO but don't let fact dictate your narrative.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119536548#Comment_119536548

I am just pointing out the public sector is 13% of the entire workforce and has loads of open positions. If these jobs are so good then why so many?

You seem to want to cut public sector wages?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119536548#Comment_119536548

You’re comparing apples and grapefruits yet again,

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119536668#Comment_119536668

Where did I say I wanted public sector wages cut?? I was saying it back after the last crash but I never said anything about cutting their pay this time around if I did show me. Also the jobs that are open is just a snapshot of our economy at present we have more jobs at present than we have workers. Look around there are messages looking for waiters, hair dressers, drivers, construction workers its not just the public sector that is currently seeing this.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119536896#Comment_119536896

It seems apples and grapefruits can be compared when the narritive suits a payrise for the public sector, weather its a selective comparisons in inflation ignoing the years between 2014 and 2021 and taking one year of temporary hyper inflation that suits the narrative or looking at the likes of Tesco in the private sector getting a 10% pay rise and the public sector thinking is I want the same. You can see it all in here and in other threads. So either we can compare or we cant but the current selective nature that the Public sector lads on here want cant be used either.

EOQRTL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119524893#Comment_119524893

Worth repeating.

Also let's not forget he then got his job back in Newstalk media to preach down to the little people and tell us how bad we are for not paying water charges or other such stuff.

Galwayguy35

The TDs, even the leftie libs who I despise put themselves in front of the voters every election and if elected are entitled to their salary although I think the expenses and pension part of the job should be looked at because it seems to be very generous.

Now those unelected twats in the Seanad are a whole other story, they have been milking the taxpayer for decades and the one time we had to get rid of it was lost because some of my fellow voters hadn't the balls to vote it out of existance.

And of course this Seanad reform never happened and never will either.