Deep space 9 revisited

santana75

I watched the documentary "What we left behind" recently having seen the trailer for it several years back but then forgot about it......great stuff. But does anyone know if the new season the writers in the doc were developing, ever saw any real sign of being made? It was a cracking story they broke and I for one would love to see it come to fruition. Also it seemed like the cast didn't like Marc Alaimo, at least that's what I picked up from the interviews. Maybe I'm wrong on that one though.

And reading back through the comments in this thread some people said that they thought DS9 to be very "Religious-ey" as though it was a bad thing, for me the spiritual aspect of the show really made it what it wad so I don't get that complaint at all.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122461696#Comment_122461696

The whole Bajor / Prothets thing was a bit of a turnoff for myself back in the day. On rewatching I'm respect more of what they were trying to do with the whole concept of a people using faith to cope with the horrors of violent occupation.

But back in the day, the Bajor-centric episodes of DS9 seriously put me off watching the show. They were an unwelcome distraction to the Starfleet adventures I had wanted to see. It wasn't really until Season 3 and the arrival of the Defiant (and Voyager S1 ending up being a massive let down) that I gave DS9 another shot and by then the Bajor-centric stuff was toned down in favor of Galactic affairs and the start of the Dominion Cold War.

But on later watches, I began to give S1 & S2 another shot, and it was then that I started to warm up to what they were doing. The Bajor stories had a deal of nuance to them built up with some pretty good dialogue. Kai Winn ended up being one of the most intentionally hateful characters Trek has ever offered, and that is all thanks to the Bajor stories.

I now kind of wish that they did more work exploring Bajor's role in the wider galaxy after Starfleet won back DS9 from the Dominion. It's kind of assumed that the Bajoran Republic joins the Federation Alliance against the Dominion, but we never get fully confirmed on screen beyond them being a signatory to the Treaty that ends the war. All we really get is that sillieness in the finale with Winn and "Angelo" trying to unlock the Fire Caves. They should have maybe fleshed out Bajor more when we were coming to the end.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122465623#Comment_122465623

I'm doing a rewatch at the moment, intent on finally finishing it. When I started the rewatch, I skipped Season 1, because of the Bajor stuff. With Season 3 Ive noticed a marked improvement and am really enjoying it.

Maybe its my advancing age, or a more cynical view of the world but when I first watched Quark he irritated me, but now I really like him and enjoy episodes with him in it.

And I'm really looking forward to Garak centric episodes.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122465681#Comment_122465681

I just finished Season 3 myself. Keep in mind, Season 3 was essentially pre "soft-reboot" when we got Worf, a new intro, and a new bald Sisco hairstyle. So within the short span of one season post-TNG they had managed to introduce the Defiant, make pretty good use of that ship, recreate their own Wolf 359 battle in The Die is Cast and seriously build up The Dominion as the new villian of Star Trek. All while beefing up Quark & Garak's respective backstories, launching Nog's path to joining Starfleet as well as setting Jake up for his journey to becoming a writer (which pays off really well).

God I miss when one season of television could manage that much. Now we're stuck with 10 episode seasons…which are often spilt in half to make mini-seasons…it's just not the same.

LambshankRedemption

We didnt have cable or satelite when DS9 first came out so I only caught bits here and there when visiting my aunt or grandmother. While at my grnadmothers, I bought a DS9 poster magazine, The magazine had stuff about DS9, and then folded out to a 6xA4 poster of the attack scene on DS9 in The Way of the Warrior, with a Picture of Worf in the centre. It hung on my wall for many years. This was it:

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122465754#Comment_122465754

I remember that one! Star Trek Monthly wasn't it?

It does look cool, although looking now it almost seems like a giant Worf head has somehow gotten stuck on a docking pylon and is thinking "How the f*ck did I get stuck here?! Why is everyone firing at me?! You are ALL without honor!"

LambshankRedemption

Just started Season 3 and have noticed a marked improvement. The Defiant has arrived. The Dominion as a new enemy has reared its head, and things are getting excited. I'm even excited to watch the next episode, whereby I was struggling to finish Series 2.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469101#Comment_122469101

Although Season 4 is often seen as the Soft Reboot for DS4, Season 3 had a certain renewed feel to it. As you said, we got the Defiant, was got an expansion of The Dominion and we even got the Generations Comm-badge just to underline how this show had emerged from the TNG era.

From my delving into Memory Alpha, it appears that ST:Generations actually happens during the events of DS9 Season 3. The exact point isn't specified but the Enterprise D is lost during this time.

Putting Voyager Season 1 to one side, DS9 Season 3 kind of acts like a bridge between the TNG Trek of the 80's and this "New" Trek of the 90's. This would be the standard we'd get for the next 5 years up until the DS9 finale and would include the better seasons of Voyager, and First Contact.

LambshankRedemption

And then Season 4, will see Worf join the crew. There is a lot to be excited about.

An excitement I never got in Voyager.

eadrom

They also got a new director of photography in Season 3 which brought some subtle but important changes.

From Memory Alpha:

Throughout season 1 and season 2, Rush had used wide lenses which tend to separate foreground subjects from background objects by having the foreground in focus and the background out of focus and indistinct. From the start of season 3 however, West began to use telephoto lenses, which flatten the field of view between foreground and background, and as such, when characters are talking in the foreground, the station in the background is clearer to the viewer than ever seen up to this point.

So not as drastic or obvious as the TNG changes from season 2 to 3 but I think the new lenses made things a little less claustrophobic in a way. The station came to life and became a more interesting place, now that we could see it properly.

LambshankRedemption

So not as drastic or obvious as the TNG changes from season 2 to 3 but I think the new lenses made things a little less claustrophobic in a way. The station came to life and became a more interesting place, now that we could see it properly.

Unlike humans in the 21st century, the Bajorans had a way of making things functional and beautiful, and the station is an example of this so you would like to see more of it. The Enterprise and other starfleet ships as military or exploration ships are somewhat sterile, but DS9 is genuinely nice to look at both inside and outside, so you would want to see more of it.

pixelburp

On the list of "shows I wish I could watch again for the first time" Ds9 is an easy top 5; man must find an excuse to start into again in the next while. Best of Trek, best of 90s TV.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469593#Comment_122469593

That's fascinating and hadn't known that. Watching 80s, 90s TV can be an exercise in patience from a cinematography point of view, given the strides made since then.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121398635#Comment_121398635

I bet if Calsberg did saints they would probably be All Saints

santana75

Im re-watching it from the start, even though I wanted to skip straight to Season 3, I thought Id give it a go. For sure they were finding their feet for S1 and S2, but there are some good episodes in there. Reckon though if it was now, the show would've been cancelled after a season, I think back then they gave things a bit more of a chance. In the Documentary the writers talked about wanted to "Serialise" the show but Paramount resisted this wanting every episode to be stand alone.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121393170#Comment_121393170

As a back drop for the storyline it was ok. But spent too long and too deep on it. Especially at the end of the series. I ended up hating the writers and actors more than religion itself.

Bashir seems well in with Hari Seldon these days.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122470307#Comment_122470307

Many successful series do poorly in series1 and it's touch and go to get renewed. Breaking bad etc.

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469699#Comment_122469699

Umm. The Bajorans may have constructed it but it is 100% a Cardassian design and they have a very drab style.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122472945#Comment_122472945

I would not call it drab.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122473253#Comment_122473253

It is an OK style. Hated it when I first watched DS9, but it grew on me.

On reflection, I'm surprised the Bajorans didn't try to de-Cardassian'ise the station more over time. You get more and more Starfleet screens and equipment turning up during the course of the show, but Cardassian displays, panels and signage remained prominent. We do have the Bajoran shrine, and the Bajoran-controlled Prominade appears to be much brighter than under the Occupation.

Practially speaking, it made sense to have a Cardassian style set in a show that would often feature Cardassia. Regular DS9 sets could be redressed easily (and cheaply) to be the deck of a Cardassian ship, or the control room of Cardassian Central Command.

Stark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122473253#Comment_122473253

I would. Was one of the things that put me off DS9 when it first aired.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122473253#Comment_122473253

Oh no it is. Iconic yes, but aesthetically? I dunno, it was a fairly utilitarian design, even if the pylons were quite striking.

Probably something more like the brutalist architectural style - though there have been a lot of defendants of that in the last few years, so assessments change with the times.

Evade

It's all greys and browns, it is drab but it s kind of imposing and overbearing too. Suits the Cardassian hat to a T.

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122473832#Comment_122473832

I enjoyed the different vibe it offered. While the LCARS theme was and still is brilliant on Starfleet ships, DS9 absolutely had to be different to stand apart. It couldn't be utopian either, it was a slave mining station...it HAD to be oppressive and dour. It felt distant, different, and lonely...imo they nailed it.

I think the Bajorans taking ownership of it, turning it into a bustling hub of life, schools, shops, etc, was the best approach to it.

santana75

Also something I've noticed on a rewatch is that the seasons were 26 episodes long! When you consider that Strange new worlds only produces 10 episodes a season(and most other shows are the same) it seems like an insane work load for cast and crew. They must've all been exhausted at the end of each season.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122475547#Comment_122475547

Hence we should probably be a bit more forgiving of the weakest half dozen episodes in such long seasons.

Also, that amount of workload was a deterrent to getting cast members to sign on for TV series during that era, it was such a big commitment.

Inviere

Plus having such long seasons, meant there didn't have to be as intense a focus on the core characters for the whole time. With a 20+ episode season, you'd have a Data episode, a worf episode, a Riker episode, a Troi episode...and so on.

So while the work went on longer throughout the year, perhaps it was a little less intense than consistently saving the galaxy with the same people (or person, cough Burnham) for the entirety of a modern season.

Of course the unsung hero of those long seasons is plain and simple character development. TNG, DS9, Voyager...all cancelled within a season or two under today's model. There's no room to breathe anymore with 10 episodes, no time for slower burning and deeper character development, no time to simmer and marinate anymore. It's all flash in the pan stuff, and while some of it is good (SNW etc), I've yet to see anything like The Inner Light, or Far Beyond the Stars etc that we'll be talking about in 30+ years either.

Stark

I think it was pretty intense even with the rotation of focus between characters. It's something I've heard frequently from actors of that era giving interviews that they were in a constant state of near burnout.

Flinty997

I just accept you have filler episodes. I don't really mind. Makes the better ones sweeter.

Tbh it takes time to build a story and characters and build up peak in a story.

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122476210#Comment_122476210

Some of the filler episodes end up an excellent ones.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122490971#Comment_122490971

For sure