Timetabling

maude6868

Hi, can anyone tell me what is the recommended class contact allocation for Senior Cycle English please. I can't seem to find any official document relating to this. We have switched to one hour classes and are being short changed I feel with 3 hours in both 5th and 6th year English.

solerina

We have switched too and we were told senior cycle would have 3 hours one year and 4 hours the other year, time will tell if it happens though !!

so far our biggest issue is the 21hours 20 and us all ‘owing’ time !!

maude6868

I'm sure we were told that too but as it stands we just have 3 classes in each of the senior groups. We are making up the extra 20 minutes through extra resource tuition a few times per term. I'm Year Head so I will have a Year Head meeting with the Principal once a fortnight for 40 minutes to make up the extra time.

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119538841#Comment_119538841

Are they counting the JC 40 minutes prep time in that 21hr 20?

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119538841#Comment_119538841

We've been doing that switcharoo thing with 3 and 4 hours. Definitely has to happen, otherwise there be hell to pay. Only downside to it is if you and another colleague in specialised subjects may need seperate programs of work as one of ye could be on 3 hours for fifth year while you have four (then switch in sixth)

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119549628#Comment_119549628

As far as I am aware we are still entitled to 40mins prep. All our timetables are maxed at 21.20.

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119538875#Comment_119538875

This happened to us one year. (I may have mentioned it here in some thread?)

We had to do an extra 11hours over one term. But this seems to have been completely forgotten about. Huge staff backlash against it and management either quietly dropped it or forgot about it.

Comer1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119550081#Comment_119550081

You are getting away with murder there😁👍

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119550116#Comment_119550116

I'll ask some of the lads tomorrow in the know, what happened there, our place likes to work you hard. Must be a reason. Unlikely they just give up for no reason.

Comer1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119550341#Comment_119550341

We have 22 timetabled hours, one of those hours is for JC, of which we are only entitled to 40 minute, which sounds like what ye have. We have to make up that 20 minutes in either tutor lessons or SEN for 11 hours.

Random sample

We do 58 min classes to get around the 40 mins. Leads to a head wreck of a timetable.

all LC specs are 180 hours, so should get a minimum of 3 classes each year of hour long.

In most schools English, and Irish would be 3/4 and 4/3 while maths would be 4/4 while options get 3/3. Then there’s religion and the well-being stuff on top of that.

maude6868

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119561709#Comment_119561709

Being a CEIST school we have to have 2 hours of Religion and that is the reason we have 3 hours of English and Irish in both 5th and 6th year. I have argued this out with the Principal and was told if I can 'magic' up an hour she would glady give it to English. Problem is I am competing with the many schools that get 4 hours of English in one of the senior classes. It will put me to the pin of my collar. I think some schools under CEIST or Erst are ignoring this directive and using one Religion hour per year for English/Irish.

Random sample

Religion hours are untouchable in out school too, so over the two years we are:

English, Irish: 7 each

Maths: 8

Options: 6 x 4

religion: 4

sphe: 1

guidance: 1

pe: 2

lcvp: 1

this gives 28 per year. kids who do higher levels maths get an extra hour of maths when lcvp is on, so don’t get the option of doing it.

joebloggs32

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119550341#Comment_119550341

The maximum timetabled class contact hours in any week is 21 hours and 20 mins since we got the 40 minute JC planning time.

A school.is not entitled to timetable you for an additional hour for 11 weeks in the year just to make up the 20 minute gap. Many schools do it, and get away with it as most teachers are unaware of this or are unwilling to point it out.

solerina

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119572394#Comment_119572394

Is there anywhere that we can get clarification on this. Most of us are being told we owe hours, I have heard between 8 hours and 19 hours. The people with 14+ are not a bit happy as they have about half the school weeks where they will be teaching over the 21.20. We contacted the union and were told they don’t have a position on it and that it’s happening in a lot of schools now, basically as long as it balances at 21.20 all is good. We are mainly not happy but no one is so far refusing !! These extra hours will be devoted to SEN

joebloggs32

That is the view from the TUI and I have that from the very top.

If your school is of the opinion that 1 hour classes are more beneficial for teaching and learning then they must also accept that this will result in a maximum of 21 classes per week for full time teachers. No additional classes can be timetable in any week. Furthermore, classes are not permitted to be shorter than 40 minutes, so principals can't try to get clever and start slipping in a timtabled 20 minute tutor period or timetabling 3 teachers to team teach something.

Treppen

Guidelines for SEN says the school should build up a Core Team of teachers for SEN.. not use it as a timetable filler.

But at a time when learning support teachers are being taken off kids , to plug the gap in mainstream classrooms.... Who cares? Not the department anyway.

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058260918/timetabling

Do what other schools are doing... Start the course in 4th year.

But don't tell anybody ok.

Rexell1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119600557#Comment_119600557

I wonder is this written down somewhere officially?

This year in our place we 'owe' 20mins a week & 3 teachers take a class for CSPE - a third of the year each to make it up.

Tutor time is now being added onto our timetables ad hoc regardless of if you are actually timetabled for that period or not.

They mustn't see the irony of adding extra unpaid working hours as tutor time outside some teachers timetabled/paid/contract hrs & being so stingy with 'owing' them minutes per week

I'm sure its the same in most schools that being a tutor is not something you volunteer for but the same teachers are assigned year on year, missing class contact time on an ongoing basis with 'housekeeping'

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672994#Comment_119672994

We are getting allocated 'resource mentoring time' this week if your timetable is not up to 21.20

doc_17

All LC subjects are designed for 180 hours. So 166 x 2 = 332 which is 65.4 weeks. So if you are 3 d 1 hour classes then that gives you 195 hours to do it. And if it’s 4 and 3 you’d get about 225.

TheValeyard

Anyone find confirmation or not about those extra twenty minutes?

solerina

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119698397#Comment_119698397

I wish we had some clarification, in my school we owe between 8 and 19 hours….it’s a lot if you have to do a whole extra hours for 19 weeks in the school year (highest amount I have personally heard of) !! The one clarification I did get from the union was we cannot refuse to work the time under 21.20 that we owe but we don’t have to allow them pool these hours into one hour blocks if we stand up for ourselves.

RealJohn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119698397#Comment_119698397

I think I was told that you could be timetabled to do the extra 20 minutes but making it an hour for a third of the year was not allowed, at least for anyone on full hours, as it would bring them over the 22 hours (including the 40 minutes for JC stuff) while you’re doing the hour. Not sure if that’s actually correct, but it makes sense.

Contact the union. They’ll know.