Time to arm all Gardai?

thedart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541054#Comment_119541054

This will decimate Helen’s likes on Twitter.

Count Dracula

I think having less arms is the way forward. But we have armed, trained units if necessary. I like the fact that we have laws in this country which prohibit or inhibit the sale of guns... and their bullets.

I would not fancy every Gard having a gun, it would inevitably lead to problems and accidents have happened, even by trained specialist units.

The reality is that guns are not the most effective way of combatting gun crime and the criminals who use them.

Live by the sword die by the sword. Gangland assassinations are inevitable, Gards cannot have eyes in the back of their heads no matter how good a job they do. More guns will have zero effect in stopping the murder rate, at all. I am told the general attitude by members is one of indifference to gangland murders, they might give detectives a headache and more work to do, but most Gards are shoulder shrugging and tutting their lips, no offence to any Gard reading this, but I would imagine they are not losing much sleep over gangster types being shot.

Armed response units are necessary, but the day of needing one to tackle bank raids will soon be over. Cash is not as widely in need of circulation, this is going to cost armed robbers their livelihood. My biggest worry is that armed robbers tend not to be the type of person who looks to upskill at night school, they will diversify where ever they see other opportunities? I am surprised that we do not see more drug theft. It is a viable commodity, it astonishes me that this is not more prevalent. Although it is probably not the most reported crime, I cannot imagine any dealers who have just been hijacked and robbed at a money or drug handover, ringing their local station to complain about a robbery?

I reckon their could even be scope to arm them less. The way forward is all CCTV, DNA, Computer and Mobile monitoring. I would be interested in seeing if the Gards have this even in their strategy. I often reckon we are living in a Stazi state without even knowing it. There is probably an NSU officer reading this right now. I am glad that we have GDPR laws and I would hope they offer people some level of privacy. But despite my worst fears I do think that we might be all the safer for it.

Guns do not prevent crime, they are hopeless at investigating it either.

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119545447#Comment_119545447

Also, I voted No to this poll. We need more Gardai in general on our streets and on our roads. Their presence is a deterrent to crime. For those of us not engaged in criminal activity a heavy Garda pretense is a good thing, gives a sense of safety. Would also support heavier sentencing for repeat offenders and some large study done to see how they can be rehabilitated in prison in such a way to discourage reoffending. There should probably be more administrative roles in the force also to free up Gards to do actual policing. The minister for justice is being progressive with legisand that is welcome but she seems more focused on political correctness as its more likely to lead to her re-election that she is with simple law and order. We need to go back to basics, more police and proper sentencing. Plus more emphasis in the education system on civic responsibility.

Drog79

Absolutely not to arming anyone, even Garda.

We have enough nasty violence, all this does is introduce more.

More mistakes, more problems, more dead people.

AllForIt

What we need is more policing, not guns.

There's no point in police having guns if there's no police.

What most people are concerned about is not high level crime, it's anti social behaviour in cities/towns. Ranging from harassment to thieving, crimes on that scale.

I see no problem with the police who are specifically dealing with high level crime, like drug gangs, being armed. They don't all have to be armed.

Strumms

There have been about 45 Islamic terror attacks in the EU in the last 21 years…

that won’t be stopping anytime soon so the likelihood is at some juncture something will happen here…

If terrorists were to attack Millfield shopping center in Balbriggan, what sort of timely and credible armed response would Gardai be able to launch as of now ? Armed Gardai from Dublin would be at absolute foot to the floor be 25 minutes away…Balbriggan station ? Best case scenario there might be a couple of detectives on duty, but not in the numbers to deal with armed terrorists hell bent on carnage.

life has changed really, Islamic terrorism is here to stay as long as the EU continues to be feckless and reckless and inviting anybody into the continent, it will flourish and prosper.

therefore all Gardai armed, no… many more armed ? YES…

rogerywalters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541648#Comment_119541648

Sorry 34 million is absolute peanuts. Theres a myriad of reasons to not arm them but jaysis cost is not one of them.

Agent Coulson

What we need is a stronger judiciary who aren’t bleeding hearts listening to sob stories.

We need the end concurrent sentencing and have proper consecutive sentencing for those who are convicted of multiple crimes.

There needs to be proper education and treatment and mental health services within the prison services.

What we do not need is the Gardai on the beat carrying guns.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119545870#Comment_119545870

You'd probably save more lives by increasing the policing of road traffic laws. Having enough armed gardai with sufficient training to be able to respond to an absurdly low probability event is not good risk management.

Gatling

It wouldn't cost 34 million to arm the Gardai with pistols , over the last few years they have been reducing the number of officers entitled to carry fire arms ,if your on a desk or not on the front line they won't allow you to carry a gun.

Someone quoted over €2500 for a sig 226 pistol, that's retail prices in America,the 226 although hardly a new fire arm are safe, reliable and accurate cost for law enforcement would be around €800 per gun with 2 magazines if I remember correctly. Slightly over 8 million in total not including training.

Apparently the chap who took over the top Job from the north was very surprised how much to range time Gardai were getting for an "unarmed" force.

At least they were making the effort

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119546070#Comment_119546070

then why have any armed Gardai at all. Road deaths in the last decade have plummeted here. 411 in 2001 to 130 last year.

the training isn’t to be able to just respond to an ‘absurdly low probability event’. Nonsense.. in addition to terror threats, there is a problem in this country with organised crime, also it’s a deterrent.

There are on average 50 firearms deaths per year in this country. Over 1 a week, one every 7.3 days

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119547232#Comment_119547232

Are the firearm deaths inclusive of suicide and accidental deaths ?

Kintarō Hattori

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058260990/time-to-arm-all-gardai

When the system allows people with 100-200 convictions to walk free, when it gives out lenient sentences for serious crimes, the issue isn't the Gardai. It's how crime is treated by those who have the power to create and pass sentancing laws.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119547411#Comment_119547411

they must be. there were 39 murders in ireland last year and not all of them involved firearms.

NiceFella

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541675#Comment_119541675

I'm not buying that argument. For one thing the US is a massive country with very complex social issues. Poverty is directly linked to crime and looking at the US there are pockets of the country that are practically third world. Sentencing in these situtions will only go so far. Plus the fact, they are probably the worst western nation for treating mental health issues. At the stage of deteriaoration the US is at in terms of social security, no amount of harsh sentencing will be a deterrant.

Ireland does not have the social issues on the scale the US has. I will add that harsh sentencing will not solve all our problems but it would certainly help. Suspended sentencing is just a joke at this stage and is the reason we have so many reoffenders.

afatbollix

Spent a week in Belfast last week, Felt weird seeing the police being armed. I went in for a coffee at one place and one followed me in and sat beside us with his coffee, Bit of community work I think, But was still armed. I know they have to be up there and at least it's not machine guns like it used to be but you don't feel safe with them on the streets everywhere.

I like how it is at the moment, Approachable Guards on the beat and get in the heavy lads when needed.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119547232#Comment_119547232

then why have any armed Gardai at all

For what they are currently used for. I'm not the one arguing for a massive expansion of the role, I think they are perfectly sufficient as is. As mentioned, extra armed police will do precious little to stop suicide by firearm which is the predominant cause of death by firearm in Ireland.

It is simply not necessary.

Juran

Tasers yes, guns no. I like the fact our police are gun free, says a lot about our country.

However, our current shower of thugs, yobs, anti social teenagers, robbers, etc. have Zero fear of our police as they know once they appear in front of the courts, they will walk away with a suspended sentence, a fine, which they won't pay in the end. And will be free to continue their thuggery and also continue to claim the generous benefits our country has to offer. Our justice system and welfare system have a lot to answer for.

Also a garda, if they had a gun, who could be defending themselves or innocent people, would be the guilty party when a 200+ times convicted criminal gets shot. They'll never get a medal for preventing major crime or saving a poor victim from being shot by a gunman .. no, he/she will always be that garda who shot that poor dangerous madman gunman.

erlichbachman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119547849#Comment_119547849

Can you see how you've just made a case where arming Irish police is not comparable to the arming of US police?

On one hand you say poverty is directly linked to crime, yet believe suspended sentences are the causes for reoffending - would it not make more sense to address poverty than judges who hand out suspended sentences?

Dyr

I doubt they're any more competent with firearms than they are with policing, I'd say they put more effort into practising dance routines

NiceFella

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548586#Comment_119548586

My over arching point is that guns just escalate situations into more lethal ones. Thats not controversial to people who have a lick of sense. As another poster has stated all arming a police force does is make an arms race with serious criminals. More and more guns in the hands of bad characters. I used America as an extreme case of were guns have resulted in innocent deaths even at the hands of police.

Yes it is. But Ireland does not have poverty or mental health issues at the level of the US. Id agree with you though, dealing with poverty would have the biggest effect. Just in ireland we woukd have a bigger issue with lax sentencing which tells violent people that there are very little circumstances for wrong doing.

Northernlily

Agree with this. Dublin (my city) is an absolute **** kip at the moment. Popped into town after work to get gifts for the GFs birthday tomorrow. 3 visible incidents in 30 minutes

Incident 1 - Two scrotes in Curry's Jervis at the smart watches pulling them off their displays without a care in the world. Pointed it out to staff who says it happens every day

Incident 2- At the lights at corner of Ballybough Rd/Gardiner Street. Some Canada Goose clad scrote being dragged a pitbull let it rip at an elderly gentleman who was walking his own dog. He absolutely welped abuse at the old man who was visibly distraught.

Incident 3 - Open drug dealing at AIB IFSC building just around the corner from Store St. I was and other people in traffic were sitting watching this at the lights.

I did not see a single Guard in town today. It's as if the force itself has downed tools and the scummers know this and don't care.

Really fear for the future of this city if the authorities don't get a grip on it. Arming guards and having them command some level of respect would be a start.

The current state of the force is pitiful. Ironically I live in Ballsbridge and I see plenty of them down here patrolling where there is **** all happening.

Needed somewhere to vent, very disheartening to see.

Podge_irl

You think the Guards are gonna do some extra-judicial executions in those scenarios? Why on earth would they need to be armed for any of those.

It just reinforces the point that what is needed is extra presence.

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119549048#Comment_119549048

Absolutely...there was a comparison on boards years ago between the Gardai and a chocolate fireguard,,, At least a chocolate fireguard is edible.. Hardly a fit looking one among them.... Pot- bellied....

Montage of Feck

We already had an armed Police Force, the RIC.

Northernlily

Yes with Tazers at the very least. It would give them more respect.

Ger Roe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119561590#Comment_119561590

I was in Dublin city centre three times (lunchtime to early evening) over the Christmas period and I walked a considerable distance all around it. I didn't see one Garda on patrol, anywhere within the city centre area. I did see anti-social behaviour and I was quite shocked at the level of dereliction all over the centre city area - dirty dilapidated buildings everywhere, every dark dirty laneway had a smell of urine, piles of rubbish and a shady character or two hanging around it.

I am in my late 50's and have been hearing about how the city center is going to be developed and improved as a social space, since I was a teenager - some of the key derelict sites spoken about then (40 years ago) are still there, in plain abandoned view on O'Connell street and its immediate surrounds.... including the sellow-taped together 'national 1916 monument building' on Moore Street.

Lack of Gardai and lack of planning, or care, has ruined the city. Arming the Gardai will not change the fact that no one takes responsibility for taking care of the city, either Gardai, or the civil 'authority' (council).

end of the road

there is no argument for, or need to arm all gardai, what we do need is county wide armed support units, we have regional ones i believe as well as the emergency response unit.

however, people need to come to terms with the reality that these units are there to deal with heavy crime and are not going to gain respect from criminals because they are armed like some believe or are hoping for.

even in countries with fully armed forces the local criminals have no more respect for the police then our own do.

we need more gardai in generaly and we need to pay them appropriately, 23k a year i believe is the basic for a starting garda, that is not enough for the job they are being expected to do.

we do need higher sentences in some cases, but people need to come to terms with the fact that those sentences will be about managing a problem and keeping individuals out of society and where appropriately rehabilitating them if possible, rather then the current issue where there is a massive focus on deterring when in reality only those who don't plan on committing crime will ever be deterred by prison.

L.Ball

Gardaí and Government TDs reject Varadkar’s backing of guns for all gardaí - Independent.ie

Very slimy move from varadkar, of course no one would support arming Gardai, but he gets to say he addressed the issue of increasingly violent crimes and simultaneously shuts down the conversation on policing issues.