Access to landlocked land

lefthooker

I’ve been approached by a man, unknown to me until he introduced himself. He’s the owner of a landlocked parcel of scrub/bog land bounding one of my fields. He wants to tidy up his land. He used to acces his plot by means of a short lane way into my land and then hug the headlands across 3 small fields till he reached his land.

For context I’m in my early 40’s, and in my lifetime, I’d never met this man, nor seen him on or work the land and only ever known it to be overgrown with bushes. The laneway has always been closed at both ends and never in use and I can only recall 1 large field instead of several small fields. From what I’m led to believe rights of way cease to exist after 20 years of non use?

He has no road access so started talking about opening up the lane again but I shot that down as it is at the opposite side of my field from his land and he’d have to cross my field anyways. I’m also not keen on letting him drive vehicles across my field and through livestock and come and go as he pleases.

I rang the solicitor to see where I stand but he’s away for a few days so waiting for him to contact me.

What trouble could I cause for myself if I let him cross my field? Do I have any legal obligation to him?

My field is marked in red, his in blue.

Girl Geraldine

he can apply to the court to register a right of way. He will be awarded some right of way, over somebody's land because at the end of the day, he still does have a right to access his land even if it does not bound onto a public road.

So long as the proposed right of way is a reasonable one, then he will in all likelihood be granted it. ie, if the ROW he proposes is the route with the shortest distance to cross land to get to his from the road, then he will get it . If is is proposing to cross 500m of your land, when he could access it by crossing just 100m of some other fellas land, then he might be denied it, unless he could show that for whatever reason, the 100m route in the other fellas field was not feasible (maybe there is a river, cliff, mature woodland etc).

Calahonda52

Blowing him out , given the prior, was not the wise move.

He will get a ROW and best to do it as per this

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/right_of_way.html

lefthooker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119543661#Comment_119543661

In that event is an access road either inside my ditch or inside my neighbours ditch the likely outcome?

lefthooker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119543754#Comment_119543754

What do you mean by “blowing him out?”

Calahonda52

does lane open onto the road

Stephenc66

You say "He used to acces his plot by means of a short lane way into my land and then hug the headlands across 3 small fields till he reached his land."

Is this something you know to be so from your own knowledge or is this something that he has told you he did?

lefthooker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119544004#Comment_119544004

He told me he used the small lane and an old workman confirmed he used the lane and went by the ditches. But it could have been 40 years since he did that according to the workman. If you look at the picture you can see where he would have come in the short lane on the RH side to get into the inner fields and then followed the ditches into the top of his land.

lefthooker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119543798#Comment_119543798

No not any more. Over the years between my neighbour on the RH side tinkering and the council doing road work and maintenance they’ve built up a clay ditch where the lane met the road. You’d need a digger to break your way into the lane today.

I know the man has a right to get into his land but I shot down opening the lane as a pointless exercise, it’s no different to me opening road gate for him. He still has to drive across my land. I suggested he’d need a access road from me or the neighbour on the LH side but he seemed more interested in getting a digger in before establishing an access route. I’m just concerned if I let him in across my field without having something proper in place I’m allowing him to establish a new ROW across my field.

cjpm

If he hasn’t used it in over twenty years it is probably dormant and he’ll be relying on a judge to grant him a new one.

The shortest distance looks to be through the triangular field on the left of your place. Maybe he should ask that neighbour……

Don’t let him do a thing on your land until you have advice from a GOOD solicitor.

funkey_monkey

As per @cjpm advice - say and do nothing until you have spoken to a knowledgeable solicitor. I'd also be making sure it is access for agricultural purposes only, if possible.

If your road access is at the right hand side of that long rectangular field then you are increasing compaction and reducing productivity of a significant portion of your land. Might be best to see if he can get access via the triangular field belonging to the other neighbour, but it would be easier for him to reestablish it through your land.

Does anyone in your family remember this fella or his family having access rights? Is it in your deeds?

You'd also need to ask your solicitor about your public liability responsibilities if this is reactivated.

Shared access & RoW are a complete pain in the hoop.

Furze99

Strange affair, he must be fairly getting on in years if you've never seen him previous. Living in general area or away for years? What does he propose to do with this scrub/ bog land? Bit of a difference between cleaning it up for agricultural use or selling as a site for a house.

Anto_Meath

Check out https://www.landdirect.ie/ to see if there is any ROW either shown across your land or into this land in particular. For €5 you can get a copy of the foilo for this land and that will tell you a lot about what currently exists regarding access to this land.

lefthooker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119544841#Comment_119544841

The man is in his 70’s and has lived about 15kms away in the nearest town. He didn’t say what his plans were only that he wants to tidy it up.

When I was telling my mam about him she said he did the same thing back in the early 80’s. The land was overgrown back then too and he went in to tidy it up. He then approached my dad to buy it but was asking way above the market value so my dad declined. It looks like he just walked away from it then and left it go back to its overgrown state.

Anto_Meath

Buying it off him now could be you best option if it suits you, because if he goes about getting a ROW into it and tidying it up he might then end up selling it to someone else. I seen it happen locally here, lad had a chance at buying a little bit like that, thought it was too dear so said no saying no one else would ever go in, a crew from Dublin bought it and have a few ponies on it now and they are a heart scald to the neighbors.

StevenToast

Youre in your 40s.......I would 100% offer to buy that off him...land attached to you...id pay a premium for it also....its worth more than market value to you....

Ask him would he be interesting in selling it to you....let him come back with a figure.....

K.G.

To be fair to the man at least he spoke to you first.plenty lads would just land on with the digger..if you are discussing a purchase never say the words "land locked".you can value it any way you want but it is worth more to you than most as if the right of way goes to court it will cost you a pile of time and hassle. I ve seen too many lads trying to exploit things like this to get land for nothing and they end up being the last person the crowd will sell to and in fact the land may be sold to right troublesome crowds on purpose.everyone likes to get a bargain but nobody wants more than they bargained for

Lime Tree Farm

Quote of the day - I love it

everyone likes to get a bargain but nobody wants more than they bargained for

lefthooker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119546138#Comment_119546138

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119546108#Comment_119546108

In my own head I think that’s where this might lead. I’ll have to wait till he comes to me again to find out what his true plans are.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119546575#Comment_119546575

If you can afford it or are in a position to buy it then it would be the best option.

As Anto_Meath said the first thing to do is pay the €5 to land direct and get a copy of the folio. If the row is marked on it then you may have to admit defeat. If it’s not marked on it you can politely decline to allow him access and it will be up to him to decide what he wants to do then.

Lime Tree Farm

The registered ROW's on folios are coloured yellow.

AnF Chuckie egg

Talk to a solicitor. A row will not necessarily be granted just because he needs one. It could be a case where access to that field was part of another holding that got sold off. If that was the case then he can't get a new row even if it dates back over 100 years

Girl Geraldine

A court would almost certainly grant him a right of way in some fashion. Maybe not the one he wanted, or his first choice, but he will certainly get some form of RoW if he wants and applies for it. There would have to be a very very good reason and very perculiar circumstances where a court would say to him, " no you cannot have a right of way to access your land". It might even be unconstitutional for a court to make a ruling that would outrightly prevent someone from accessing their property which is fairly and squarely owned by them.

Whether it be over OPs land, or someone elses, if he wants a RoW, he will be granted one through the courts.

AnF Chuckie egg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119549575#Comment_119549575

Not if there was an another access route to the land in the past. A new one will not be granted that takes a different route.

If it was as easy as you make out then I could sell off my road frontage and go to court to get access to my place through the neighbours land.

Doesn't happen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119547244#Comment_119547244

Look up old ordinance survey maps,they are represented by dotted lines