Westmeath school gets temporary injunction banning a suspended teacher from it's premises

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119556360#Comment_119556360

The number of births with ambiguous genitals is in the range of 0.02% to 0.05%. .... if the term is understood to mean only "conditions in which chromosomal sex is inconsistent with phenotypic sex, or in which the phenotype is not classifiable as either male or female", the prevalence of intersex is about 0.018%.

It seems as if your figure of 1.2%-1.7% is seriously disputed.

What the pronoun fundamentalists here don’t seem to get is by using they / them you can both choose not to deliberately offend someone and choose not to recognise a transition at the same time. They / them per the dicictionary definition are both a plural pronuons used to refer to more than one person and singular pronouns used to refer to someone of unspecified gender. Note unspecified not neutral or gender fluid or anything else. By using they / them you are just referring to the individual and leaving their gender out of the conversation completely.

By asking the teachers in the school in question to refer to the student as they/them, they were in fact giving the option to those who may object to someone choosing to transition from he/him to she/ her to use another term which just does not specify the gender at all, therefore does not imply acceptance, just a level of human decency that is well beyond the Burkes.

To the Christian’s on the thread, what is more in line with the teachings of Christ? Decency and respect to the individual or judgement and anger?

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119562434#Comment_119562434

That was the only issue for anyone who actually had read what happened.

laoisgem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119562223#Comment_119562223

No I cannot, it wouldn't be fair to go into personal details.

Morris Garren

Where do they get their money?

This Burke 'family' appear to take pleasure in being vexatious and take craw-thumping religious hubris to outrageous lengths. But it takes effort to be so controversial and it requires financial support, being in court so often. I hope he gets sacked - the Teaching Council might actually do some work here - and some time in a jail wouldn't be out of place, given his blatant contempt of civil court. The debate about pronouns and vulnerable transgender folk will rumble on.

But these people have supporters. Maybe not many here, but no doubt, the basket case of Amurica churns out plenty of these religious loons spewing hate-filled intolerance and nonsense, in the name of 'Jesus' or 'God' which only compounds the idiocy. His qualification in Theology was from the US? Well, like those gun-waving, cap-wearing MAGA enthusiasts, Enoch might have a future in a place far far away from Westmeath, but not in 21st century Ireland.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119562722#Comment_119562722

What makes you think the Principal is new to the job?

From all the reports there are many people in the school dissatisfied with Mr Burke. Many people walked out when he launched a verbal attack against the Principal in June. The School board took decisions to take injunctions against him.

h2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119561672#Comment_119561672

A bit wiser than his appointment anyways. I’d imagine it’s a body that failed here rather than a singular person. That’s typically how these appointments are made.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563360#Comment_119563360

It has become the main issue for anyone who actually read what happened from the start.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563437#Comment_119563437

Fair enough. The OFC brings a bureaucratic workload threat and potential public embarrassment to an organization by investigating and making a negative report. AFAIK it has no power beyond that.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563661#Comment_119563661

The start being him being a moron at an official event.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563738#Comment_119563738

Well if the schools actions threatened the childs rights thats a good thing

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119561498#Comment_119561498

My understanding of Wilsons Hospital School is that whilst it was traditionally a 'protestant' boarding school, and still is to some extent, that it has a very broad ethos and is generally liberal in outlook.

If Mr.Burke is an evangelical protestant of some sort, you could see how he might fit in there, as the school is tolerant of a wide variety of views.

On related matters, what has happened to teachers in catholic schools who have refused to teach sex education etc? Have they been tolerated or kicked out?

Montage of Feck

It's funny how these christian fundamentalist types rave on with obscure theology clap trap, but then manage to miss completely the example of acceptance set by Jesus.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563771#Comment_119563771

The start was the refusal to comply with school allegedly asking/instructing him to use name and chosen pronouns of a transgender student transitioning. It has become the alleged behaviour at the event and the disciplinary actions which followed and the injunction, breach of injunction etc.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563800#Comment_119563800

If the child’s rights suffered at the hands of the school I might expect stronger action than bureaucratic workload increase and a report.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563831#Comment_119563831

As far as I know, it's easier to abstain from teaching sex education on the basis that there are other teachers willing and capable of filling in. That said, if they went on public verbal rants against the principal and sex education in general to the point that they had to be physically restrained, then yeah - pretty sure they'd be kicked out.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563831#Comment_119563831

It’s well worth looking at this aspect of it. The ethos /characteristic spirit is modern CoI but makes explicit reference to Biblical values. As I said previously modern CoI is elastic. A look at the broader Anglican approach to transgenderism shows division, hence elasticity.

Ethos/characteristic spirit and the contortions around that, the teaching of RE and sex education in publicly funded schools is not far from the surface in this case. It’s no longer the main issue and I believe a great number of interested parties will be heaving a sigh of relief that that is not the case.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563921#Comment_119563921

I cant say what OCO did so the point is kinda mute.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563833#Comment_119563833

True to a point. The point being that for a Christian holding Jesus up as an example is utterly dependent on the “obscure theology claptrap”, I.e. Jesus was the son of god who died to save us. And once you buy into that game, you buy into all of it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119564014#Comment_119564014

I can say what powers the legislation gives the office and I can’t see any beyond what I stated already. As the powers are in the legislation they aren’t moot. I’ll take another look to see if I missed any.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119562897#Comment_119562897

Sure, sources differ. I listed mine. What's yours?

Point is moot, obviously, as the existence of any intersex people disproves the fundamentalist "there are only two genders and my One True God created them both!" talking point.

None of which is the issue at hand here, in any case.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563346#Comment_119563346

This makes a good point about the management of pronouns in an organisation.

It does present “ask” in the problematic way I mentioned before.

It does not deal with use of a different name which would open up the grounds of dispute over “choosing not to recognize a transition”.

At least it offers a rationale for the approach other than “orders are orders”. The rationale is not giving offence and decency. That will fly for a while in some situations until other issues emerge such as the NHS is now facing at Tavistock.

https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2022/08/14/minister-to-meet-doctors-over-tavistock-clinic-concerns/

cbreeze

I expect wee Enoch will go to the WRC with their mother and get thrown out just like their sister!

thecretinhop

If only things like this with him had bring flagged while he was doing his teacher training in nuig department of education....

He should just self-identify as a teacher who isn't suspended. Then he wouldn't be breaking the injuction, he would just be staying true to his gender identity.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119564549#Comment_119564549

What are the pronouns for a teacher that wasn't suspended?

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119564780#Comment_119564780

Burke/Berk

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565266#Comment_119565266

You're misidentifying him as not suspended, you monster!

FAILSAFE 00

Never had to worry about pronouns when I was a school boy... "little ****" seemed cover all possible pronouns.

Tow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119564780#Comment_119564780

Sir/Miss or just teacher in the Irish.

He is probably not suited for the ideology of a COI school, traditionally they have always been far more liberal the likes of a Christian brothers or Jesuits school etc. I send my children to one they are all about inclusiveness and celebrating gay pride etc. For example, the school uniform list was changed a few years ago to remove all reference of specific items for males and females only.