Westmeath school gets temporary injunction banning a suspended teacher from it's premises

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119587847#Comment_119587847

Fair point, and Burke may have had respect before all this started. But ranting about his religious beliefs is exactly how he lost respect of the students, the facualty and pretty much the entire country.

So respecting one's elders is valid - to a point. But when elders start acting like dicks then that goes out the window.

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588361#Comment_119588361

I'm just asking a question, no need for the attitude, this issue will become more and more common in the years ahead, what happens if a family member refuses to acknowledge a child's gender? It is a simple question, what would happen if the child was in therapy and a mother or father refused to participate in the process? Is the therapist in a position to approach authorities?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588389#Comment_119588389

nothing would happen. there is no legal requirement for a parent to acknowledge their child.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588195#Comment_119588195

This whole charade has little to nothing to do with the original request to be honest.

The Staff were told of the childs wishes and asked to comply with those wishes , as they are obligated to do under the Equality act.

Enoch Burke refused on the basis of his religious beliefs. That refusal was to have been handled via the appropriate review/appeals process.

This is where it goes badly wrong as Enoch refused to follow that process and instead of handling it in a mature and respectful manner for all concerned he chose instead to stand up in the middle of a Church Service (celebrating the schools 250th anniversary or something) to make his feelings known on the subject of Transgenderism and the request being made by the student.

The congregation at the Church service included Staff, Teachers, Parents and invited guests.

He continued the rant at a dinner event later on and refused to stop when asked and told that he could have the discussion at a more appropriate time and place.

According to multiple media reports , staff members felt it necessary to physically intervene between Enoch Burke and the School Principal to stop his harassment of her.

It was for this incident that he was suspended on full pay pending a formal disciplinary review.

Enoch refused to engage with or recognise the suspension and the associated process and continued to turn up for work as if nothing had happened.

The school repeatedly asked him to adhere to the rules surrounding the disciplinary process which he again refused to do , forcing the school to seek an injunction to stop him coming to the school , sitting in a classroom and causing all kinds of disruption.

The injunction was granted and he again just ignored it and continued to turn up to school every day , which has now landed him in Jail.

Enoch Burke was provided multiple opportunities to take a step back and seek to resolve the issue in a normal reasonable fashion, he has rejected each and every one of those and instead has chosen the most public and disruptive path that he possibly can.

And all along in this there is a teenager going through a difficult time being carelessly used as a prop in this engineered crisis designed to further his and his families particular brand of Religious intolerance.

His utter contempt for the well being of the child at the root of all this should be more than disqualifying for any future teaching work.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119587867#Comment_119587867

Fair enough - see the post above. But then Burke take the advice also.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119587947#Comment_119587947

Plus the initial clickbait headline and opening paragraphs by TheJournal.ie which catapulted the story to national attention.

Schools adopt policies on what is known as a whole school basis. Applies to everyone, everyone expected to abide by it. Covers situations where teachers are supervising breaks, lunch, classes with teachers absent, walking the corridors etc. Promotes a consistent experience for students across the organization.

The above changes nothing in favour of Mr Burke’s actions but may throw some light on the media focus on that aspect.

Montage of Feck

The easiest option would have been to just keep his opinions to himself, live and let live ffs. With all his education he chooses to associate himself with an ideology and outlook that appeals to yokels, maga and brexit types says a lot.

ArthurDayne

Tis a strange thing - to see those who would likely have no quarrell with their religious ideologies being imposed on society, cry over the perceived imposition of the ideologies of others upon them. The very same people who I doubt would protest "God's Law" (or at least, their own version of what that is) being woven into statutory law, and the restrictive effect that this would have on society, are quick to portray themselves as the crucified martyrs of freedom of speech.

Gentlemanne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588493#Comment_119588493

The Burkes seem to be physically incapable of keeping their opinions to themselves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119587330#Comment_119587330

Makes sense- otherwise there’s a risk of staying in Mountjoy forever more- how long before contempt of court becomes criminal contempt?

Seathrun66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588523#Comment_119588523

Rendering them effectively unemployable. Certainly the teacher and his solicitor sister, for starters. The state will thus be subsidising their grievances for the next couple of decades. Couldn't we shunt them off to Louisiana, Westboro or the like to god bother and breed somewhere more appropriate?

Faugheen

I see the transphobes are back again to derail the thread further with their disingenuous bollocks around pronouns.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588378#Comment_119588378

How do you quantify if someone is gay? You ask them. Same goes for gender. These kind of things that individuals determine, not everyone else.

We're not asking people to prove how straight or gay they are. Why are we asking people to prove their gender?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588099#Comment_119588099

Whilst rags like The Daily Mail somewhat sensationalised the story in their headline and content, they did in fairness report it reasonably accurately in that they eventually detailed he was in prison for contempt of court, not because he refused to use the new pronouns for the child-The New York post, less so- it gave distinct impression he was jailed for refusing to use pronouns-

But what struck me were the comments in the daily mail article- practically all praising the teacher for his stance- I know there’s an anti-trans lobby out there and while I’m not pro trans movement by any shape or form ( I believe they do more harm than good) I’m certainly not anti trans - by looking at the comments you’d think the UK was full of southern bible belters .

It’s a good story to stoke up the far left and the far right, that’s all - I’m the meantime there’s an innocent child trying to negotiate a difficult start in life pushed into the public arena by this horrible man who calls himself a teacher

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588370#Comment_119588370

Or you can’t. I’ve asked this question before, always stonewalled. It’s like there is no explanation.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588603#Comment_119588603

They are sexually attracted to members of the same sex. It would be fairly easy to to quantify that, they would get excited and aroused when they saw an attractive member of the same sex. Any study of the brain waves/scan would show the amygdala react to this, thus quantifying the attraction/excitement/arousal. Same as it would for a straight person seeing an attractive person of the opposite sex. Now I’m not saying we should be testing, but it is quantifiable.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588616#Comment_119588616

there is an explanation. do you think gender is some great unknown? Here is your starter for 10

https://cihr-irsc.gc.ca/e/48642.html

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588605#Comment_119588605

The daily mail article that I see did not mention his disruption of the church service or the event afterwards. It conveniently left that bit of the story and focused exclusively on pronoun use. This was before he was jailed.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588605#Comment_119588605

In the meantime there’s an innocent child trying to negotiate a difficult start in life pushed into the public arena by this horrible man who calls himself a teacher

This is the absolutely central element here.

Personally , I don't really understand transgenderism and I know that I would likely struggle hugely if my child or another family member came to me to say they were transgender.

But , I'd like to think that I would do all that I could to be respectful and understanding - I'd probably make mistakes and say or do the wrong thing at times , but they'd be mistakes and not deliberate concerted efforts to demean and belittle a person going through what would obviously be an incredibly difficult time.

Enoch Burke is failing in his basic duties as a teacher and frankly as a human being.

Beasty

Whatever anyone thinks of what he did, wishing harm on him is not acceptable

Beasty

teotwawki threadbanned

fattymuatty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588389#Comment_119588389

Just to answer this - nothing happens. We are in this situation with our autistic teen. Our child's CAHMs shrink is supportive of our stance given our child's history. She has been very clear that we can block all access to 'gender clinics' until they are 18 and then they can make up their own mind. There was an assumption that we were just bigots that needed to be educated until we explained our child's history and our concerns but once we explained the situation in full the shrink was understanding of our point of view.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588707#Comment_119588707

Absolutely - and I’m with you in that I’m not a trans “expert” either and I’d certainly make “mistakes” but the trans issue is a sideshow- this is all about respect for a child as an employed teacher- nothing more, and he’s failed miserably at that

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588707#Comment_119588707

What if your child or another family member came to you and told you they had become an evangelical Christian?

Could you maintain your respect and understanding then, including hiding your distaste?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588664#Comment_119588664

Fair enough I saw a different article but anyway as you can see I wasn’t setting up the daily mail as an exemplary paper either way

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588408#Comment_119588408

This is a detailed account. If there is eventually a court case on the substantive matter relating to religious freedom and the constitution etc., then we may hear Mr.Burke's account and that of others. Then the public can judge better the course of events.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588512#Comment_119588512

Yes, and a teacher going off on one about how being transgender is against Christian teaching is great for the safeguarding of a child's mental wellbeing as they wrangle with the fear of angering God and the torment of hell. The alleged care for children in cases like these is nothing more than the false pretense of people whose only true preoccupation is the selfish motivation of making sure they get a skip-the-queue pass at the pearly gates.

There are rational discussions to be had as to how schools and general society should approach the complicated issue of transgender children. I don't go along with the view that everything the so-called "trans lobby" says has to be invariably deemed correct but sadly for the more dramatic people on this thread and elsewhere, the issue at hand here is more prosaic than a glorious battle of a martyr versus an oppressive phantom secret police of blue-haired liberal arts apparatchiks. This is simply a case where a disciplinary procedure being followed was taken so out of hand that a court order was sought and granted, which was then flouted in contempt of that order.

The people involved here are intelligent enough, and absolutely most definitely well acquainted enough with the court system, to know what the consequences are for violating a court order.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588752#Comment_119588752

unless their behaviour fundamentally changed why would you not?

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588752#Comment_119588752

Yes - Again I wouldn't really understand it and I'd make mistakes , but I'd try to understand where they were coming from and find common ground where our relationship could continue.

Now , if they started telling me that I was going to burn in eternal hell because I chose not to believe in God , then that becomes a different kind of conversation.