Westmeath school gets temporary injunction banning a suspended teacher from it's premises

The simple solution is simply using the name the child and their parents requested and not being an asshole about it.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612466#Comment_119612466

But where does that go when kids want to be called silly names which get a laugh and class disruption. I’d have them change their name legally before I’d allowed them be called it in the class. And I’m not just referring to this instance.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119611661#Comment_119611661

None of the trans issue is relevant as to why he was jailed.

HOWEVER lets actually look at this in more detail.

Burke was not happy with the schools decision to agree to the student and students parents request to all school personell to use a new name and they/them pronouns. Effectively Burke wanted to force all teachers and students in the school to show disrespect to and discriminate against this student. Burke could have argued as a matter of personal conscience that he just would continue no interactions with the student but its now clear this issue has never been a matter of Burkes personal conscience. His actions have always been about forcing his views onto the entire school community. Ultimately Burke has been on a crusade that the entire school should disrespect the student and discriminate against the student and set aside the schools admission policy and schools anti bullying policy because of his (burkes) beliefs.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612412#Comment_119612412

That would be potentially a breach of equality laws and anti bullying policy. Suggestions like that are about "othering" and singling out the student as some sort of pariah and have no place in a school that looks after students welfare.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612445#Comment_119612445

So are the media outlets lying that he was imprisoned for not using preferred pronouns.

He is in jail on contempt of court for breaching a court injunction. He can walk out of the jail if he agrees to adhere to it.

He has told the judge to lock him up as he has no intention of adhering to it

So yes would be the answer to your question

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612445#Comment_119612445

Yes. He was imprisoned for breaking a court injunction.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612505#Comment_119612505

Whatabout whataboutery. Thats just totally impractical to say "show us yer birth cert or High court deed poll before I can use your name"

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612641#Comment_119612641

In future you will refer to me as Bulldozer you pup.

Quin_Dub

I think it needs to be pointed out that the document from 2002 that Enoch seems to be relying on is NOT from the School. It's a Church of Ireland document.

His argument being that because the CoI stated twenty years ago that "there are only 2 genders" and because the school is a CoI diocesan school, that means he's in the right and that this somehow trumps the law of the land.

Wonder how that works for all the Catholic Schools , when the Catholic Church says similar things?

Or how about the Church position on Homosexuality , Gay marriage or Abortion?

It's utterly immaterial - Equality Act is all that matters , Diocesan school or otherwise.

He hasn't got a leg to stand on.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612505#Comment_119612505

Now you're trivialising the issue.

Do you require proof of a legal change of name anytime someone not trans asks you to call them by a nickname or by a shortened name?

Or do you only require proof when it involves trans students?

Because that could be seen as acting in a discriminatory fashion.

All this was covered earlier in the thread as well.

Henry Ford III

Is Enoch still in the 'joy? I wonder how that's going for him?

freshpopcorn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612915#Comment_119612915

I'm fairly sure he is and he'll be fine.

He'll had a fairly isolated up bringing and then when he went to college he ended up being an outcast at college. However he did need his daddy to show up.

No doubt tough he's playing the victim card about being the poor teacher who got suspended for his beliefs.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612838#Comment_119612838

If Jonathan prefers to go by John and his teacher calls him by his given name Jonathan, is he going to run home, tell his parents and cause murder over it? Will the principal send a school wide message stating that he should only be called John? And will people come onto Boards whinging that Jonathan is humiliating and degrading to John??

Or would you discriminate against little Johnny because he wasn’t trans??

You’re into the realms of nonsense there.

amdublin

What an eejit.

Being in jail must be awful.

Enoch: stop turning up at the school after they got an injunction against you because of your behaviour. Then there is no jail for you.

amdublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119613059#Comment_119613059

The drama you are creating unnecessarily is unreal. What is your problem.? Just call someone what they want to be called. Trans or not trans. Just have a bit of respect.

If you asked me to address you as Fandy, I wouldn't be like: "nooooooo, yesterday you were FandyMO, FandyMO you are for the rest of your life"

Or I wouldn't interrogate you "well hang on a second FandyMO, whyyyyyy, whyyyyyyy should I call you Fandy. What is the reason you are now Fandy?"

Just mind your business and get on with your life and stop worrying about other people's lives and causing them stress and trouble.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119613144#Comment_119613144

It's literally that easy.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612505#Comment_119612505

The slippery slope argument - really?

"No, I will not be calling you Graham-linehans-career-is-in-the-toilet, Cynthia. Not unless your parents come in for a meeting and confirm in writing that they're ok with it. Shall I call them to arrange it?"

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612445#Comment_119612445

So are the media outlets lying that he was imprisoned for not using preferred pronouns.

Yup. And most of the Irish ones, at least, will report what he's actually been jailed for in the first or second paragraph, once you get past the headlines. The British tabloids, less so.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612671#Comment_119612671

Bulldozer you pup your suggestion of only using a legal name is completely and utterly impractical.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119613059#Comment_119613059

...

No, you are. This level of nonsense is only happening in your own head. Seriously, you're really stretching.

Actually...

No, wait.

We've had the Slippery Slope Argument.

This one is Reductio Ad Absurdem.

I'm sure there's been a few more over the last few pages, but could we perhaps tick off every entry on the Wikipedia List of Fallacies?! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

nothing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119613247#Comment_119613247

It wasn't a question, the user was saying the media are clowns.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119613059#Comment_119613059

If Jonathan prefers to go by John and a teacher knowingly refuses to call him John, and persists in calling him Jonathan, that is considered bullying.

That actually happened to my niece, so I have a real life example of that to go by. Teacher was reprimanded.

So no, not in the realms of nonsense here at all.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119613373#Comment_119613373

Actually, now that I think about it, yes, a friend with a non-Irish surname had the same problem. An Irish teacher insisted on using some made up Gaelicisation of the name. Was told no, that's not my name. Started using some half-assed transliteration instead. Told to stop again. Didn't. Complaint made. Stopped.

Tombo2001

Have zero interest in the protagonist but I do think its incredible to read the same opinion* about the guy printed in three different newspapers here, and by different journos in the same newspaper.

*If it was a news story, there really wouldnt be much to say. But these bloody "you need to hear my opinion" columnists cant help their righteousness. The arrogance of these people.

Quin_Dub

All this "Slippery Slope" stuff is really really stupid.

It's not like a kid wandered into 3rd period French on a Wednesday and said the the teacher "from now on I wish to be called Johnny Awesome".

FFS.

A child, along with their parents came to the school with a request, no doubt following a long period of consideration and consultation and asked for some common decency and respect for their situation and circumstances and Enoch Burke the "Christian" , couldn't muster up that decency and respect for a child.

Every single other action on his behalf since then have been further evidence of his utter contempt for anyone and everything not absolutely aligned with his very specific world-view.

Enoch wants the entire world to dance to his tune and his tune alone and is unwilling or incapable of accepting that other people want to dance to their own tunes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119613442#Comment_119613442

Back in the 80's my mother had a running battle with my primary school teacher for the same reason. She crossed out the Gaelicised version of my name that the teacher had put on my copy book and wrote my regular name, which the teacher then crossed out and put back the irish-sounding version.

By the end of First Class my copybook looked like:

Edward Denartha

Eamon Mhic Denartha

Edward Denartha

Eamon Mhic Denartha

Edward Denartha

Eamon Mhic Denartha

Edward Denartha

Eventually come parent-teacher day the issue "somehow" got resolved.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119613059#Comment_119613059

You might be, we're not.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612609#Comment_119612609

Wasn't asking the question. I was saying he's a clown, and so are the lying media outlets.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119613442#Comment_119613442

Had the same issue despite not having an Irish surname. They made one up and gave me that. I thought it was stupid even as an 8 year old, but didn't care. Not a hill I wanted to die on.

I often wonder if they still do and if so, how they handle Polish and Nigerian surnames?

Arghus

Maybe some of you have already come across this, believe it was on Reddit, but here's a clip of his mother and, eventually, Enoch making an appearance on liveline back in 2015, arguing about the legality of a mural errected in Dublin around the time of the marraige referendum:

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/liveline/programmes/2015/0417/694836-liveline-friday-17-april-2015/

What they're arguing about may seem like Ancient History now, but I still think it's an interesting listen in terms of revealing a lot about their mindset and modus operandi.

The mother is extremely self righteous and hides behind legal sounding arguments, makes assertions whose validity is unclear, frames the argument in different ways depending on the caller, never gives an inch, ignores difficult points raised to counter her own... In other words she's dishonest, infuriating - but well able to debate: mainly by bludgeoning and repeating questionable "facts" until they become accepted in the debate.

It gets borderline hillarious when Enoch appears, who despite being equally strident and opinionated is remarkably coy about whether he is related to the other caller called Burke, who has the same style of speech, share exactly the same opinions and who he feels pretty comfortable speaking for.

I can only imagine what they are like to deal with in a situation where they are personally involved: I'd say it's like a hurricane.

Aside from all the debating characteristics, they come across as very flinty and devoid of warmth.

I do find them fascinating, but there's something so repellent about them as well. I think I'd have more sympathy for them if they were intolerant, but in a sense truthful or genuine, but it's a common characteristic in all of their scrapes that they distort the facts and are consistently dishonest about their own actions and very selective in what they recall etc - they lie about things and they must know that. I feel everything they do is rooted in cynical self promotion, rather than deeply held genuine beliefs.