Politicians who are Landlords

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119595395#Comment_119595395

I didn't argue that anyone should be stopped from doing anything.

I questioned the morality of a politician buying up properties and putting them on the rental market in a calculated move to increase their own portfolio of properties and then to financially benefit from the housing crisis by charging extortionate rents on said property.

The most important part of the point I'm making is that this person is a politician who currently holds political office. They are out looking to add to their property portfolio at a time when other politicians are under scrutiny for doing exactly what they are doing.

If your argument is "money talks", good for you. If someone wants to bid more on something, that's capitalism, tough sh1t, I'm not whinging about that.

My point is that our political class don't have any interest in solving the housing crisis because they are direct beneficiaries of it.

All you managed to take from the post I wrote originally was that you perceived that I had a problem with people bidding more than others on houses or cars which seems to me to have nothing to do with what I was saying at all.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119595878#Comment_119595878

If someone needed a car but couldn't afford one and there was no affordable public transport and a minister charged with tackling the problem was out bidding members of the public so he could buy an extra car to rent at exorbitant prices, based on the car crisis, I'd support stopping that.

DoctorEdgeWild

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119596198#Comment_119596198

I go to work every day to financially benefit. I imagine you do the very same as me, for the very same reason, yes? You brought up their net worth in your post, what relevance did that have?

Politicians make decisions every day that affect us, that's what they are elected to do. They should be free to have normal lives outside of that responsibility, within the laws and rules of course.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119596461#Comment_119596461

I brought up their Jett worth because it informs their ability to easily purchase property that most people have to struggle to afford.

The point I was making was that politicians buying up property to put it on the rental market is a conflict of interest at a time when there is a housing crisis.

If we had enough housing in this country I'd have no real issue with politicians buying houses to rent out, but that's not the reality we live in.

If you're happy for politicians to go around out bidding first time buyers so they can rent houses out at extortionate prices that's wonderful for you, the majority of logical people would look at that and think "how is that helping the housing crisis".

That's the thing about Ireland, whatever the situation there's always some contrarian voice supporting the rights of people doing immoral things "fair play to them, I don't see you doing x, y or z, shut up and let them do whatever they want".

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119595070#Comment_119595070

So you think we should deliberately exclude people based on a perception that they don't want to fix the "crisis". Many of these have experience which can be used - or do you think only renters should be allowed input into the problem?

There are a lot of people who profit from a housing crisis. Even Sinn Fein are profiting from a housing crisis (and not doing very much in reality to fix it where they can).

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119596587#Comment_119596587

I think ministers who make money off a crisis, should recuse themselves from any discussion on ending that crisis. Ideally we should have measures in place, with teeth, that preclude a minister from helping to feather his or her numerous nests.

No politician from any party, in opposition or government, should be making a profit off the publics misery. Ministers who make policy are a bigger issue.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119596931#Comment_119596931

What would you make of a politician getting a loan from a charity that he was a trustee of, said charity being funded by the taxpayer, and him not paying back the charity?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119596587#Comment_119596587

With 50+ properties going up and up in value all the time, SF are the political party making the most profits from the housing crisis.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119596948#Comment_119596948

I'd think it was a disgrace. Now that you got that out of your system, where do you stand on legislators making money off a housing crisis?

Good loser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119596198#Comment_119596198

Surely the more people that (as you say) 'buy up properties and put them on the rental market' is a good thing?

Isn't the essence of the rental market problem a lack of supply? There are not enough houses for rent is what I keep hearing all the time.

Do you think we should have more residential landlords or fewer?

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119598427#Comment_119598427

There's a lack of supply in housing across the board, not just in the rental sector.

If you were in the process of buying a home right now how would you feel about people buying up properties to put onto the rental market?

What you're proposing is just another contrarian argument that offers no solution to the housing crisis.

Do you believe the route out of this crisis is through wealthy people buying up all the housing available to put it on the rental market? Are they hoping to reduce rental costs and help out the people who will be renting from them?

What you're saying makes the actions of these people seems almost altruistic when the opposite is true and it's glaringly obvious to everyone.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119598673#Comment_119598673

There's also the pricing to consider. Many people can't afford to buy or rent. This is were working people need to be subsidised by the state to keep the show on the road. Housing policy failed years ago, it's just never been put out of our misery because some people are making so much money. Its shameful.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119596545#Comment_119596545

No, the thing about Ireland is that whatever the situation, there is always some contrarian voice envious of other's success and wanting something for nothing and only trying to do down those who made a go of things.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119600674#Comment_119600674

I don't want anything for nothing, you can take a hike with that spin you're putting on what I said.

Being a greedy pig isn't a virtue, even if you think it is.

Good loser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119598673#Comment_119598673

You gave a nine line reply but didn't answer my simple question? Why not? Again 'Should the country have more or fewer residential landlords?'

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119601924#Comment_119601924

The country requires more housing in general.

Residential landlords aren't the answer to the lack of supply that is effecting renters and buyers alike.

You're focusing on a question that you believe is important, I would assume because of the fact that you want to win an argument and you're doing so at the expense of ignoring the elephant in the room, housing supply. Odd that you chose to focus on the length of the reply I gave you instead of the content within because you felt it didn't directly address your question.

There are developments in the construction phase now that are being funded by international investment funds that will soon be bringing rental properties on stream. New residential landlords in the shape of investment funds, coming to save the day I'm guessing you're thinking?

What is your opinion on renting as a long term housing solution in this country? Do you rent or own your own home?

Or perhaps the more pertinent question would be, are you a landlord?

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119601924#Comment_119601924

Rents are too high for most, meaning the tax payer often has to subsidies and they are out bidding first time buyers. In that scenario, fewer.

While we are somewhat reliant due to the FF and FG housing crisis, we should be moving away and not towards such dependency.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119602188#Comment_119602188

All functioning housing markets need landlords. Not everyone can afford to sell up and then buy every time that they move job.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119604964#Comment_119604964

Yeah, but our housing market isn't functioning correctly.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605035#Comment_119605035

Go on, elaborate why you think this is so and how you think it can be fixed

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605056#Comment_119605056

I'm not qualified to do that. I am qualified to share an opinion on a situation I witnessed first hand however, and that's what I did.

Seemingly because of that I want "something for nothing" and I'm jealous of other people's success according to one poster.

My contention was that right now is probably not a politically sensitive time for a serving politician to go to view properties with a view to renting them out upon purchase. I also believe that politicians willingness to engage in this type of thing demonstrates why they, as people more qualified than you or I to solve the housing crisis have no reason to do so and in actual fact they stand to benefit from the proliferation of said crisis.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605101#Comment_119605101

Utter nonsense.

You are able to comment that we don't have a functioning housing market but you are unable to tell us how it isn't functioning and what a functioning housing market looks like?

You don't want politicians to become landlords, as if the small number of properties they might buy would make a difference, yet do you ever think of the actions of other politicians which have a distorting effect on social housing. We have one TD on over 100k living in a council house blocking that from others who need it more, and we have another TD who bankrupted a housing association by not paying rent. You don't seem to have a problem with them.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119604964#Comment_119604964

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605035#Comment_119605035

The essence of a rental market is that one party owns a property and rents it to another.

People who want to rent need a supply of properties.

The fact that the market isn't functioning correctly will not be addressed by further restricting supply.

Demonising landlords whether they are politicians or not is a zero sum game.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605198#Comment_119605198

I don't seem to have a problem with people that I didn't mention? I never had the issue of those politicians you're mentioning raised so how can I be expected to comment?

Do I have to cover every potential base to satisfy your requirements to express an opinion here?

The primary issue that needs to be addressed in this country is building enough housing to satisfy demand. We already have investment funds financing build to rent developments around the country which are set to take advantage of the housing crisis through charging the same extortionate rents people in the rental sector are already subject to.

Why should I take issue with politicians buying up what you describe as "the small number of properties" they might buy? They are the people enabling what I outlined above, they're allowing foreign investment funds to take advantage of the existing housing crisis and on top of that they're also buying properties to add to their personal portfolios so they can charge extortionate rents as well.

According to you that's all hunky dory, and anyone trying to buy a home just has to accept that it's tough sh1t for them if their local TD decides they want to buy the house they're trying to purchase.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605325#Comment_119605325

The problem here is the assumption that all people in the rental market want to be in the rental market.

I've been there, paying crazy rents and at no point did I ever want to be doing so.

That's the problem with renting in Ireland, typically speaking you would pay less for a monthly mortgage repayment on the same property you will pay mad money to rent, that's why virtually nobody who rents in Ireland would pass up the opportunity to purchase their own property instead.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119596954#Comment_119596954

SF own fifty dwellings? Are you sure about that?

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119598427#Comment_119598427

If you ask the wrong question, you won't get the right answer.

The right question is "Is our government doing enough to ensure all the people of Ireland are housed at an affordable price?"

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605463#Comment_119605463

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-fein-is-the-richest-political-party-in-ireland-1.4193124

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/sinn-fein-is-irelands-richest-political-party-39017278.html

Read it and weep.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119600674#Comment_119600674

Having read the news about Troy, I can assure you that I'm not in the least bit envious of him. I feel sorry for anyone so grasping, it seems to me that there is a basic flaw in that type of character.

In the particular case, Troy appears to have used his position (Co councillor, TD), connections and insider knowledge for personal benefit. The word for this sort of behaviour in other countries is "corruption". In Ireland though it appears that such a person is a "Q tour" and to be praised and emulated.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605445#Comment_119605445

It's true that a large proportion of renters cherish the idea of owning their own home.

However that doesn't mean there isn't another large group who need to rent for one reason or another.

The only thing that will help at all levels of the market is increased supply.