Buying Next Door to Social House

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119647052#Comment_119647052

"perception" is an .... interesting word in this context.. aka often hearsay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119647199#Comment_119647199

The social tenant I spoke of did not live directly next door to me. He lived in the terrace behind mine and one down. He wasn't exactly pleasant originally when I did speak to him, so I pursued it, as I told him I would. And I would have continued to pursue it, if needs be. I'm like a dog with a bone, didn't you know that? ;)

The problem is, that his kind of behaviour is not exclusive to social tenants. The firestarter could equally have been a private owner, and what could I have done if he was a private owner? Not a damn thing. And I have had issues with neighbours who are private owners over the years as well. But at least with the council you have some recourse.

Anyway I hope the original poster has made up their mind, and didn't write the house they loved off purely because of the blatant prejudice towards social tenants expressed by most here.

I'm pretty much done here, I'm getting bored of repeating myself, and I'm not going to change my mind, or any of yours.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119647293#Comment_119647293

Well, when I was growing up, there was an absolute lunatic living in the estate who made everyone's life a misery. There is no way you are bringing him to court, I can tell you that. He was eventually murdered in fairly gruesome fashion. It is up to the council to do their job.

It is fairly simple really, follow the rules and have the benefit of a council house. Break the rules sufficiently and be evicted. If this was a realistic possibility, people wouldn't mind the risk of living beside social housing as it would be resolved in a reasonable time frame.

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119647334#Comment_119647334

Unbelievably naive and worse

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119647326#Comment_119647326

Any room for me there? Joining you!

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119648883#Comment_119648883

Care to refute anything I said specifically? Educate me maybe?

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119647334#Comment_119647334

Unfortunately the councils hands are pretty tied.

It is extremely difficult to get a judge to actually order an eviction from a council house. Because bottom line, the council are required to house those who cannot get housing elsewhere. No matter how bad their behaviour is. The council are the last resort.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119645413#Comment_119645413

Just in case I, or anybody I know, or indeed anybody on here, wants to make a similar complaint. The councils own websites are lacking in this detail

Former Former Former

Even if those of us who think that local authority housing is associated with more issues than private housing are indeed horrendously prejudiced and it's all lies... the OP would do well to consider what this widely held prejudice will do to the resale value of the house, should she want to sell in a few years.

If she isn't getting it at a discount, she should be.

@Red Silurian

@Red Silurian South Dublin County Council's website has all the required information.

You can download their Anti Social Behaviour Strategy from this link.

https://www.sdcc.ie/en/services/community/joint-policing-committee/antisocial-behaviour/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119650339#Comment_119650339

Hold on a minute.

Nobody said it was "all lies". That's very disingenuous of you. What was said was assuming a social tenant is going to be more troublesome than a private one is unfair, and yes, I believe its a prejudice.

I don't see why you find it so hard to make that distinction.

If a buyer wanted to go into this solely looking at resale value, well they can give same discount when they go to sell, that you're advising they look for now.

Swings and roundabouts.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119650812#Comment_119650812

That's very disingenuous of you. 

Bahahahaaa. Pot/Kettle, jesus.

What I say doesn't matter. The absolute, unshakeable, undeniable reality is that a social housing tenant is many, many, many times more likely to be a troublesome neighbour than an owner/occupier. There is a very good reason that all the worst places in the country are social housing developments, not private estates. It's not the bricks and mortar that are different, it's the people inside.

I live in Dublin 15 and I've been seeing the contrast all my life.

You're upset because YOU as a former social tenant don't want to be tarred with this brush, and I understand that, I do. But it doesn't change the reality.

It's all about probability baby.

The OP is setting fire to a large pile of money if she isn't going back to the estate agent and saying "hey, you didn't give me the full picture, we need to renegotiate on price". But I assume she just walked away.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119650935#Comment_119650935

Again, not a former social housing tenant, and never have been. But you already know that.

As for everything else, TL:DR.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119650972#Comment_119650972

Short version: please learn about probability.

Each individual social residence is either good or bad.

But if you look at the proportions ie number of bad ones divided by number of residences) the social group has a far higher value.

Prejudice is acting as though every single family that moves into a social house will behave badly.

Probabilty is understanding that it's more likely that a socially-housed family will behave badly.

Naivety is believing that there's anything meaningful which the council can do about it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119651203#Comment_119651203

I fully understand probability. I made the point myself that many of the posters here are basing their prejudice on a probability of risk.

Its also a fact that there are thousands upon thousands of families living in social housing who never behave badly. Who take pride in their homes. Houses that are social homes intermixed with private homes that you can't tell the difference.

But all social housing / social tenants get lumped in together. See Former Former Former's last post before this, if you'd like a perfect example. "It's not the bricks and mortar that are different, it's the people inside."

Interestingly, I asked a question earlier on which no one answered, about how many of the current generation who grew up in privately owned homes, will struggle to buy and will end up as social tenants in the future?

Where do they fall on this scale? Do they now fall into the "should be avoided at all cost" "run away" "don't live beside scumbags" categories because they can't afford to buy?

No need to answer. Just something to think about. Anyway, I'm done.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119650972#Comment_119650972

Edit: f**k it, why am I bothering

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119651322#Comment_119651322

Thank you. As someone living in a council property I KNOW you are right. As someone who grew up in the UK when post was council estates were mushrooming I KNOW you are right. Many of my school and church friends lived on such estates and went on to university and to love good and socially responsible lives. As most folk do.

I often visited their homes and such lovely folk taking excellent care of their homes. Often not well-off ...

The only bad neighbours I have suffered ( mild word!) have been rich folk in owner occupied houses with attitudes such as we see here.

And I would be more concerned having read this thread for the mental and physical welfare of people living in council properties alongside some of the posters here. But know that most folk take as they find. Not as others accuse...

Gossip and tall tales and rumour..

And let us hope that the OP having seen the ...nest of vipers, figuratively speaking of course, has wisely gone elsewhere for better and more realistic advice.

Signing off here the while.. Off to greener pastures.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119653434#Comment_119653434

Don't you live on an island off the west coast? It might not be comparable to social housing in urban areas!

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119651203#Comment_119651203

Naivety is believing that there's anything meaningful which the council can do about it.

As Loueze has pointed out this statement is completely untrue from his/her own experience

Padre_Pio

I'm buying in an estate. I checked the planning docs to see which houses were designated for council houses.

I chose a house furthest away from them, tucked away in the corner.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119648884#Comment_119648884

I'd welcome you as a neighbour, anytime, Graces7.

Peintre Celebre

Loueze you are obviously very defensive against the perception of council tenants being worse tenants and neighbours and good for you. I'm sure you and your family were great neighbours

But personally there is absolutely zero chance I'd take the risk. Colleague of mine bought a lovely new build in an estate, five months later he sold it. Saved his arse off for years, moved in with the in laws with the kids to gather money, and next door and across the road went in social housing with no control over their kids, domestics, suspected drug dealing. Felt sorry for him the constant stress and strain he was under. That sealed the deal for me I will spend the extra and go elsewhere.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119654354#Comment_119654354

Yeah, you could - and then a neighbour could decide to move and sell their house to the council, and you would still end up living next door or in close proximity to social tenants.

Much as many here would like to see social tenants all bunched together and tossed into huge housing estates with no services and no prospects which experience has shown breeds the very kind of social problems being discussed, its not going to happen.

So you may as well get over your notion that if you spend enough money you can buy yourself somewhere guaranteed to be free from social housing unless you're prepared to buy a one off house out in the sticks somewhere. Which is also your choice.

Good luck.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119654488#Comment_119654488

It is about probabilities though as people have repeatedly said. In the council estate I lived in (80s-90s), there would have been maybe 10% of residents having some sort of anti-social issues. A smaller percentage would have had serious or even very serious anti-social behavior. All of my friends grew up in social housing estates and ALL of them, given the chance, preferred to buy elsewhere.

Around 2000 or so, a new small social estate was built beside the one we lived in. The people who moved in were quite different than the 80's working class families. It was the new generation of people relying on social housing, unemployed, single parents etc. It completely changed the area, the issues were much worse (think people shooting up in the laneway beside the house etc) and my parents moved out a few years later. They moved into a private estate and haven't had to worry about kids throwing stones at the windows or the car again.

From the states point of view it is better to spread social housing around. It isn't necessarily better for the families living next to problem tenants though, especially given the states hands-off, always take the easiest option approach. As a parent I want my kids to grow up in a safe area without the type of bad influences I grew up with. I would make no apologies about that either.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119654574#Comment_119654574

And if it turns out your kids grow up and can't afford to buy, (as many of the current generation can't) and end up as social tenants themselves - would you be happy at people labelling them and referring to them in the kind of terms and with the kind of prejudice that this thread has shown? Lumping them in with the "bad influences" they don't want their kids grown up near?

I bet you wouldn't.

What about all those low income families currently on waiting lists, simply because they are priced out of buying a home? Will you label them the same way too? Attach a stigma to them based on their ability to buy a home?

I hope it keeps fine for you. I really do. As the saying goes "there but for the grace of god, go I."

Deebles McBeebles

Reading this thread it really comes across that the problem isn't whether it's social housing, owner-occupier or private renting. It's the quality of parenting or lack thereof that most people mention as the main problem.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119654644#Comment_119654644

There is a stigma attached to social housing in Ireland. If my kids needed to go on the housing list then I would expect people would be worried about them moving in next door, yes. It is different of course when you get to know someone. In the case of the OP, they have no idea who is going to move in. You are focused on individuals, I am more focused on the probability of a bad tenant moving in.

I think we should move away from the current method of allocating social housing and instead reserve social housing for those who have a history of working, are retired or sick. Those who don't have a history of working can go on the HAP system and find their own accommodation.

With record low unemployment, we still have over half of the applicant households in Dublin city relying on social welfare only. In fingal it is even worse. If you are buying a property, have a look at that document

Dublin is the capital city with over 1/5th of the population living here. Of course the overall numbers are going to be much higher for this county.

Is there a breakdown on the type of social welfare payments those applicants are receiving? Or are you assuming its majority unemployment?

How many of those applications are from immigrants newly arrived in the country?

Are you just attaching more labels?

thugtomas

No matter where you purchase these days, there is every chance that a Local Authority will end up purchasing a house or apartment

HerrKuehn

I was talking about the proportion rather than absolute numbers. For example in Fingal, there is a 72% chance that someone on the housing list has only social welfare as income. All the details you desire are in the document. But here you go:

I am afraid it isn't the immigrants who are to blame for being workshy either (only 256 out of 5589 in Fingal are non EU):