Random Renewables Thread

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119828451#Comment_119828451

True, although I think there needs to be some sort of immediate incentive for anyone installing PV

If not a grant then a tax deduction, like they have in the US would be good. And I'm pretty sure charging the lower rate of VAT for solar panels and equipment would be a reasonable use of taxpayers money

I absolutely agree that there needs to be a focus on offshore wind and solar farms, but those projects also take a lot of time and always face local objections

Microgeneration reduces the amount of other renewables that need to be installed, and also encourage people to be more self reliant and take control of their energy usage

unkel

I'm a big fan of microgeneration as you know and I practice what I preach to the max. All paid from my own pocket though with zero subsidies. Subsidies, tax credits, lower VAT rates all create massive hassle and admin costs, we do not want that. We need a one size fits all system. That's not going to waste tax payers money on red tape or end up in the wrong hands.

Like a simple mandate from the government to force net metering. Costs nothing to the tax payer, costs nothing in terms of work or admin on part of the government and gives the CRU something do do with their time, instead of sitting on their hands being paid generously to write a few useless reports - that's what they are doing now. All hassle would be with private for profit companies (the utility companies) and almost all benefit will go to the microgenerators (far more than with the current FIT system)

Net metering is the sole reason why the Netherlands have by far, by far the most PV installed on homes in Europe. And the PV over there isn't even as good as in winter land Hibernia (Ireland)

the_amazing_raisin

Speaking of wind

RTE news : Wind energy pushes prices down in October

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/1103/1333015-wind-energy-ireland-report/

Newsflash: Turns out that wind energy works, energy experts baffled...

bullit_dodger

I agreed with you there unkel on the Net Metering. 100% it would be the single biggest improvement in my eyes that the CRU could have done (or do going forward).

The problem I see though is that for you, me and many others there on the forums we've a personal interest to "do the right thing". Theres a big group of people out there who jsut don't really give a monkeys and even the benfitis of net metering wouldn't convince them to outlay €8-10k on an solar installation. Then there's another bunch of people who do care, but don't have the resources to purchase the initial instllation.

It's the "entry to market" that's the problem for me, and lowering that entry would push adoption.

Yeah, dunno if grants are the solution cause - sure we dont' want the majority of grant money going to an installer, but at the same time giving everyone €600 for energy doesn't seem right way either. You can install a lot of solar installation with €1.2B! I'd rather that money spend on some long term investment than some quick fix band-aid to win the next general election.

slave1

Unfortunately, the band-aid political approach cannot be separated, wait until water charges raise their head again soon, referendum ahoy!

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829198#Comment_119829198

You don't need to invest €8-10k. You can do a sub €1000 DIY install that would make a meaningful difference with a payback of just a couple of years with net metering. If you don't have the cash or the skills, you can go SAAS, for just €29 a month, doesn't cost a cent and you will save money from day 1

The Netherlands are proof. If you introduce net metering, huge numbers of people will get PV on their homes. Simple.

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829417#Comment_119829417

What's involved in the 'sub €1000 DIY install' or whatever is an entry point kit wise? I'm looking for something for my folks to give them some real basic baseload cover - and likely many here are similar for their friends and family. But all I know at the moment is what our installer setup - I don't have the understanding sadly for anything beyond that now.

Looking at the quotes thread, seems SAAS are hard to get to respond at mo (sellers market of course). My folks don't have the money to pay an installer to fill the roof.

unkel

DIY install of 3-4 panels on a shed or kitchen extension or against a garden wall with a microinverter wired directly to a spur. Would cost about €1000 and would generate 1500kWh per year in a decent PV area of Ireland if south facing, so at net metering by definition you will use all those units at the higher rate, so say €0.40 average over the next few year (that's prudent I think, some people already pay more), so €600 per year, or a payback time of just over 1.5 years

Have you ever heard of any other risk free low cost investment that gives you a guaranteed return of 60% after tax? No, me neither.

Even as is, with no subsidies, no net metering and a FIT of €0.18 and if you used about half of those units yourself (again fairly conservative) and lost half of them to the grid, you would still make 750 * €0.40 + 750 * €0.18 = €435 per year, or a 44% return on investment and a payback of a bit over 2 years

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829467#Comment_119829467

(2 Solar Panels) & (1 x Two panel micro-inverter) = done. (probably for €750 and it will do 0.8Kwp)

No, I'm with you there unkel. I did my own install of 2.3Kwp on the shed as you probably remember, but we're not "normal people" :-) I'd much rather see that €1.2B in taxpayers money giving free solar installation (SAAS style) to every OAP than €600 in credits for the general populous. But that's jsut me.

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829578#Comment_119829578

Cheers. Where was your link to the thread for your shed's DIY setup? When I search for 'shed' I don't see it easily. I'll give it a read again. Tbh, I didn't realise it was just micro inverter and panels.

bullit_dodger

Links for you (but this is open to swapping of course for equivalent Enphase or other Microinverters/panels)

1 x Midsummer Renewables = €199 (ex VAT)

2 x Midsummer Renewables = €430 (ex Vat)

Then maybe €100 or so in mounting brackets and some cable bits and bobs and for €750 (ex Vat) you could be up and running covering base load. I made my own mountings out of 2x4 - cause I couldn't get any Renusol / another make. You could even slap a 3 pin plug on the micro-inverter and just plug it into a normal socket and be up and running. (Personally I like having a seperate isolation switch, but that's jsut me)

To be fair now you should submit an NC6 form for your property if you haven't already got one in, but yeah, you could be up and running VERY easily on a DIY. It's easier than a battery if you have the courage.

the_amazing_raisin

Does anyone have an external combiner box on their setup or are you taking the panel strings directly to the MPPT?

I'm debating installing an outdoor combiner box to take the 3 strings I'll probably have down to one set of cables.

I'd then be bringing those cables to the MPPT via some steel ducting

I might be getting an extension in the future with more solar, so it could be handy to have the combiner box to bring them back to instead of trying to run a load of wires through the ducting

I also like the idea of having an outdoor shutoff switch so I can ensure the cables running through the house are dead if needed

unkel

@the_amazing_raisin - "take the 3 strings I'll probably have down to one set of cables"

As in paralleling 3 strings? You can't do that unless your inverter can handle the amperage. I've never seen the spec of a grid tie one that can handle well over 30A

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832101#Comment_119832101

Don't worry, it can handle a large load 😉

The strings will be connected to an MPPT which can handle up to 100A, so no worries there

It's really a question of cable management, whether I want to bring 6 cables in or two

There's the question of expansion as well, I could have up to 7 strings at some point going to 3 charge controllers. So it seems like a good idea to combine the strings outside and have 6 cables going inside

I know the cables from the combiner box would be thicker, but overall its neater

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832204#Comment_119832204

100 amp mppt? One tracker? Will all panels be the same direction?

Prob best taking it in on multiple cores (think of a multi core (5 core, 7 core etc) cable and combine them closer to the mppt.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832231#Comment_119832231

Yes, yes and yes, at least initially

If I do the extension and add more panels they'll be East-West, so they'll be on separate MPPTs, but that's later if it happens at all

Nice idea about using a multi core cable, will take a look at one

unkel

100A? What's the make and model of your inverter? Surely it must be an off grid system you are talking about? Most grid tie single phase inverters for sale in Ireland can only do about 10-12A. I'm trying to get my hands on a Sunsynk one that can do 26A, so you can use parallel input strings. But 100A???

And yes, multicore is a cheap way to use cable for higher amperages than it's rated for, rather than buying thicker, far more expensive cable.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832306#Comment_119832306

Once you start going a good bit past 10A per MPPT designing the inverter starts becoming more awkward and it becomes easier to increase power by bumming up the voltage. One of the ways to get around it is to put multiple power conversion circuits in paralell, after you have done that its trivial to give each their own MPPT as long as you have enough PWM outputs available on your microcontroller. It would not surprise me if the 26A is just 2x13A internally

unkel

@Ubbquittious - Yes you are spot on, the MPPTs are described in the latest spec sheet for the SunSynk as 2+2. Suits me perfectly as I have (or will have) two panel arrays that are too high a voltage in one string, so going to parallel both of them

Would be interested what inverter @the_amazing_raisin has

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832306#Comment_119832306

https://www.victronenergy.com/solar-charge-controllers/smartsolar-mppt-ve.can

I actually read the spec wrong, 100A output and 70A input, still plenty for my needs

Gonna pair this with a Multiplus II, hoping the 8kVA will be approved by the time I'm installing, but I might need to downgrade to the 5kVA if not

unkel

Off grid in an on grid house? I'd recommend you revisit that decision. It's an awful setup, which will never pay for itself. Victron is highly overrated too.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832694#Comment_119832694

You can grid tie a Victron system, the new Multiplus is approved for the Irish grid

You can say they're overpriced, but you get a lot of quality and support for the price tag and those mean a lot to me.

Look at every solar PV channel on YouTube and I bet more than 50% of them will have a Victron inverter installed

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832609#Comment_119832609

Ah that makes sense now.

Your only gonna be able to fit 3 panels per string.

Do you have any solar in currently?

A hybrid inverter would be much more straight forward.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832849#Comment_119832849

Why 3? Max Voc is 250V and each panel is ~40V, so I should be able to get 5 per string

graememk

Maybe I'm looking at the wrong data sheet..

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832958#Comment_119832958

Yeah that's the 150V version, there's another data sheet there for the 250V versions

There's also a 450V version that got released recently enough, but the price is eye watering 😭

unkel

Victron is a bit like Apple was a few years ago. Looks and feels great but the price is at least twice what it should be based on specs. Also made in India, which is several steps lower on the quality ladder than China imho 😂

Lovely blue colour though 😁

Any link to the Multiplus you were going to buy with a price on it? I promise I won't comment on that. Just to give myself some shivers!

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119833161#Comment_119833161

They're not cheap, but I think once you go beyond a certain system size your choices become limited pretty quickly

They do seem to back it up with quality. I know the Alibaba copycats can be as good, but Victron have the support network that others don't, which is worth something

Here the 8kVA Multiplus, doesn't seem to be any cheaper to buy from Europe than UK. Maybe Irish customs will forget to add the VAT 😏

https://www.bimblesolar.com/Victron-MultiplusII-48-8000

Unfortunately it isn't approved for Ireland yet. The max that's approved is the 5kVA.

I could gang two of those together and pull 10kVA out of solar and battery, would make for a fine inferno 😂

unkel

Inverter I'm getting can pull 10kW out of solar and in and out of battery and costs about a third or a quarter of your two Victrons 😀

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119833683#Comment_119833683

Is that the Sunsynk?