Objective view on Vladimir Putin?

lumphammer2

First of all I want to note I am not a supporter of Putin .. and 100% agree that he does not deserve to hold onto power as of 2022 due to what he has done in Ukraine and in Iran, Belarus, Georgia, etc. ... he and the puppets he helps in the other places are keeping people down ... and as of 2022 it is clear he is the new Slobodan Milosevic.

... but are there any positives about Putin? Let's see ...

During the Iraq war era I have got to admit that I thought Putin then made sense ... he was ironically one of the strongest opponents of a stupid economy destroying war that the West STILL does not blame for the financial crisis it caused and for the ISIS mess that it spawned.

Sure Putin had launched a war in Chechnya ... but so did his predecessor Yeltsin. He also went to war briefly in Georgia ... but that was overshadowed by the horrors coming out of Iraq.

It was clear that circa 2003-2013 that Putin was often the least bad guy when compared to the Republican Party who invaded Iraq .. and the ISIS who took over Iraq. By 2014 it was clear Putin was becoming more of a problem. He had turned Russia into a dictatorship by refusing to stand down after a set amount of terms in office and was killing Russian opponents of him in and out of Russia. He then annexed Crimea. But ISIS, then another despot called Trump, Brexit and Covid all took attention away from Putin.

Ukraine was not the only country Putin has annexed ... he set up a puppet regime in Chechnya lead by Ramzan Kadyrov who is like ISIS but working for Putin. Putin also made sure his servant Ebrahim Raisi won an election in Iran with the help of his pal Trump destroying the popularly elected Rouhani administration ... and Iran's king Ali Khamenei making sure Putin's man got in as head of government. Now Iranians have to put up with a far worse regime than ever before .. seemingly constructed to keep the people, esp. women down. Putin also has clients in breakaway regions of Moldova and Georgia and the Kazathstan and Belarus regimes are more puppets similar to the Iranian one and the pre-Zelensky Ukraine one. Putin fought another war in Syria ... while it destroyed ISIS it cemented the Assads another Putin puppet. It all shows Putin will go to war if he has to in order to protect his clients.

Putin's worst oppression apart from war is felt on the streets of Tehran and Grozny where ISIS types oppress the local population on his behalf. He controls vital oil rich regions incl. the Arctic Ocean, Persian Gulf and Caspian Sea. He also wants to dominate the pipelines in Ukraine ... his aim is to be the dominant energy power in the world.

Because the world depends on the resources in Russia and its puppet states Putin may well get away with what he is at. He has always said if the sanctions go the oil flows ... it is hard to see people put up with misery and Putin knows this. Putin may win sanctions relief ...

... but what next? If the current puppet in Tehran keeps rolling back freedom in Persian lands ... whose people are educated and know what is going on and know it is Russia not Iran that is controlling them deliberately to keep them down ... expect a massive revolution. If Russia continue their war even if sanctions are gone expect it to become unpopular akin to how WW1 and Afghanistan became unpopular and changed Russia's system to the USSR first and Russian Federation second.

All in all ... objectively ... Putin is a bad guy. He may have had a purpose early on esp. during the Iraq war times. He may have helped defeat the worst of the ISIS regime ... but what he does in Ukraine, in Iran, in Georgia, in Belarus (Lukashenko is another lovely guy!!) and within his own borders negates any positives ...

893bet

A massive kunt

Gregor Samsa

Putin’s done a lot of pretty bad things, but at least he never posted a CA/IMHO thread in AH. It’s one line he’ll never cross.

Jequ0n

I’m neither a Putin supporter nor hater, but you got to admit that he is a lot smarter than the average Western politicians who keep shackling themselves.

Gusser09

All i have to do is look at my esb bill to confirm what knut he is.

ancapailldorcha

Just another sad old tyrant who can't accept that the world is changing and that the rancid, oppressive, decaying empire he grew up in has rightfully been consigned to the dustbin of history.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058262460/objective-view-on-vladimir-putin

For people who can't be bothered.

TLDR: He's a murdering bastard.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588126#Comment_119588126

Smarter? not really. He is just more willing to murder anybody that stands in his way.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588699#Comment_119588699

Yes, self serving and therefore not caged by the morals of the western world.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588946#Comment_119588946

which does not equal smart.

EOQRTL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588126#Comment_119588126

The standard is pretty low in fairness.

fryup

he's playing a game of poker with the west and he's holding all the cards - gas, oil, etc

he's been planning this for years and he's got us by the short & curlies

One thing I always am amazed at is for such a supposedly intelligent guy why his propaganda in the West is so bad. He comes across as a cold eyed psycho in a suit.

If was a dictator I would hire the best PR in the world to make me seem like a warm, nice guy.

EOQRTL

He's full of sh1t tbh. Constantly drawing lines in the sand and does nothing when they are crossed. He warned the west not to supply weapons to Ukraine and when they did he did nothing, he's actually going crying to the UN about it now 🤣. Said any attack inside Russian territory would be an act of war and when positions inside Russia are attacked he does nothing. Thought he's take Kyiv in 3 days and had his ass handed to him. People saying he's a smart guy are deluded. Former KGB agent jesus they must have some thicks in the KGB

fryup

he doesn't want to be seen as a 'nice guy' he wants to seen as a hard ass

He's a dictatorial menace.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588979#Comment_119588979

Because he doesn't want to be viewed as a warm, nice, guy anywhere in the world.

His whole existence is to exude strength and power, he maintains his walk/habits from his KGB days.

He rides around on horseback topless, he goes hunting with sniper rifles. They may be photo-ops/propaganda but either way, they're there to show what a 'rambo' he is.

We in the West may fall for the charming, affable, politician routine, but others fall for the OTT bravado, macho man, stuff.

dxhound2005

Some of the worst tyrants started off life in poverty. So with Putin.

https://acestoohigh.com/2022/03/02/how-vladimir-putins-childhood-is-affecting-us-all/

AlanG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588979#Comment_119588979

There was a study recently that showed they have focused their PR on the 75% of he world that is not Nato / Japan / Anzac. We get a very different message to Asia, South America and Africa when it comes to the war.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588126#Comment_119588126

Oh yeah, the invasion of Ukraine was a cunning move.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588126#Comment_119588126

Haha Russia will be defeated on the field, in it’s economy and it’s status on the world stage.

Putin has finished Russia as a country.

Hangdogroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588126#Comment_119588126

Well he's shackled himself and Russia to a war thats looking increasingly unwinnable.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119590616#Comment_119590616

Yeah, but it may be a case that he loses at a big cost to other people. As mentioned above he controls a lot of gas.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119590631#Comment_119590631

Not really anymore.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119590643#Comment_119590643

We'll see. Winter is coming.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119589998#Comment_119589998

That's another thing I don't get. He seems to be innately suspicious of the America and the 'West' as if they want to destroy Russia. So in response he embraces the third world banana republics trying to build some grand anti-Western alliance.

I think if he looked at how America treats former enemies that became westernised, Japan, Germany, the Baltic states, he might realise that the yanks don't really want to destroy countries. On the contrary they would prefer to have good relations, open trading markets, ideally democracy etc. Not much more to be honest. His paranoia is weird. Does he actually think Nato could invade Russia?

He's made Russia regress about 30 years all in the space of 7 months.

I never really bought into the 'hardman' myth. He doesn't look that tough to me. He's one of those try hards, all posturing but no substance.

victor8600

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119589012#Comment_119589012

Putin is not a hard ass. He is just a weak old man who was put in power by the mafia. The cleptocrats in power wanted a pawn who would facilitate stealing of the state assets and to ensure that profitable corruption schemes are above the law.

The image of Putin is just that -- an image created by PR consultants. Anything that Putin says is a meta construct, it is all half truths and lies which serve a purpose of him staying in power and his cronies to get rich. Please read books by Pelevin, nothing in Russia is true, everything that Russia appears to be is an illusion to make people mistrust each other, so that they do not resist. If everything is a lie, everyone is bought, then you have no hope in fighting for your rights.

You could ask -- isn't Putin fighting the bad, decadent West and protecting ethnic Russians in Donbass from the genocide?

Lol. No.

Ukrainians are very dangerous to Putin because they keep changing presidents. Putin's goal is to keep Ukraine down so that the people in Russia see that Ukraine is weak and that changing presidents is a bad idea. Donbass/Lugansk areas were occupied by Russia since 2014. Have Putin made life better for people there? Nope, that wasn't a goal.

Another bonus for attacking Ukraine is that it keeps Ukraine from developing their own gas deposits around Crimea and in the east of the country. Anything that threatens Russia's near monopoly on gas supply to the EU is bad for Putin.

Everything else -- the threat of NATO, making Russia great again, and so on are just lies. Putin wants to keep himself and his cronies in power and rich. But he made a fatal miscalculation. Ukraine decided to fight, and Putin's head is now at risk.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588979#Comment_119588979

Thats exactly the planned effect!!! And as you can see, it works.

Tonesjones

He's not as crooked as Bertie and not as much of a **** stirer as Leo

He went into middle East,defeated Isis (broke all sorts human right violations along way),stemmed the tide of suicide attacks into Europe,brought some semblance of stability to middle East after 20 or so years of American led interventions......had Russia in a v.strong position in terms of geo-politics, particularly in middle East..

Decided to fcuk it all away,for Ukraine.....the yanks mustn't believe their luck,Russia burning through resources and knocked it's military back decades,is now got caught in a sunk-cost type fallacy that seemingly lacks who to extract from......the yanks don't care about Ukrainians,but are happy to tie Russia up in an endless landwar

Brought Russia out of doldrums,the 90s were awlful for em,but was utterly corrupt in doing so.......started horrendous wars with cheyna and Georgia aswell,killing thousand

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119593203#Comment_119593203

So to sum up...a bad evil barsteward !!!

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119590815#Comment_119590815

Yes, but then he might not be the big boss in such governmental and democratic systems,,,and his foremost ambition and all his endeavors are centered on himself.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119593226#Comment_119593226

Yes....an awlful man,but I can have certain understanding as to why so many Russians respect him

His legacy, particularly in geo-politics terms in middle East,(Russia were in line to dominate for next 40 years there Vs America/eu) was exemplary,he backed Assad,the plausible secular leader there (if a butcher) and reasonable to believe secularism would spread forte,unlike west who armed moderate rebels,whom were promotely co-oped into much more "successful" Isis (exact same happened here as regards free state arming saor Eire,whom got subsumed into pira).......

that he/Russia choose to throw it away,to invade Ukraine,will be one of worst stragetic mistakes in last 250 years

A jumped-up little bollox.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119593262#Comment_119593262

He "Inherited" ( my description, Actually it was engineered and planned by Yeltsin ) a population which has been molded by generations of communism, a state which reduced the human to a Nr in a system, with that system controlling it's "Nrs" ruthlessly. So like ducks, which after hatching, will follow the first moving thing they see ( or so I'm told anyway) So Russians were pre-programmed to follow Putin. There simply was no one else. That he put some kind of order into the chaos that followed the demise of the USSR is indisputable. The fact that he engineered the whole system to give himself absolute control by fair or foul ( and mainly foul) means is also indisputable. And so we are where we are today. On the balance, there may have been even worse tyrants amongst the oligarchs', but we will never know now. And then when you think how he could have chosen a different path... law and order, reforms, democracy etc. what kind of Russia might we have today??? A economic rival in a real sense, the equal of any of the world's finest economies' ???

con___manx1

One guy who spoke out against putin last week mysteriously fell 6 floors from a hospital window.

Democracy at its finest.

The russian people are a bunch of sheep. They are afraid to say anything about putin.

I follow this young youtuber and he walks around russian towns asking questions about the special operation and so on and most are afraid to speak.

I do believe america and nato have prevoked putin and are not totally innocent.

Imagine a neighbour was taking bit by bit of your garden year by year.

The reason he took crimea is becsuse he new nato would put there ships there 100%. Its the only reason he took it.

Nato have army bases all along the russian border by the way.

This has been the case for many years.

They have been poking the dragon for way to long.

This conflict could easily escalate past ukraine in the future. I really wouldnt be surprised

AMKC

Yes he is a deranged very bad evil bastard that is stuck in the past. He has had 20 plus years in power gmto make Russia a great power and modern economy and instead what does he do starts a stupid war that he can not win and has set Russia back 30 years.

He could have be the greatest Russian leader ever and now instead he will go down as the one who ruined and failed Russia. I just hope he dies soon with a massive heart attack or something and that the Russian people then stand up against his cronnies and someone better takes over.

Probably a bit high-brow for Boards.ie, but what is the eventual outcome of a defeat for Russia? You'd have to imagine that China have their sight on the entire Russian Far-East.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119593402#Comment_119593402

They will only be defeated to their border by Ukraine and humbled.

Cant see China sticking the knife in.

cj maxx

I think he’s promised so much to his cabal he can’t be seen to back down

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119593402#Comment_119593402

China just owns people through money,it deosnt have tradional imperial ambitions on land,it (abit like Ireland),has a history of being colonised and suffering at hands of its neighbor

Why throw its weight at an invasion and see its economy wiped out,to take on a nuclear power,when it can partner with Russian regions in the east to provide reasonable levels of food (and water) security to its populace and ease it's dependence on the yanks as they are more likely to elect trump type characters than not into future imo.

it's a flaw,to view world through entirely western view,it's why the sanctions haven't worked on any country outside of the west and certainly havnt stopped this war

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119593334#Comment_119593334

There no doubt Russia has regressed on many areas under him.....but it is an economic powerhouse,compared to when he took over....I remember ruble collapsing several times in space of a year in late 90s

Noone is preprogrammed to do anything,and I've no doubt many in Russia dispise him,but most who do are entirely afraid to speak out,as well he tends to have high profile critics killed......

i would .think a bit like Catholic church here,an overbloated powergrip,with a massive undercurrent of resentment in population,but with enough people buying into/putting up with its sh1te (priests nun etc have relatives) to continue its pretense,

who on surface are popular,while in background are subject of ridicule....

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119593678#Comment_119593678

China just owns people through money,it deosnt have tradional imperial ambitions on land,it (abit like Ireland),has a history of being colonised and suffering at hands of its neighbor.

China is already an empire, a massive land one, going back nearly 2000 years. It literally had an emperor only a hundred years ago. As is Russia, the largest country on Earth. They're both extremely imperial in outlook and historical background.

Western European countries after bashing the feck out of each other for centuries while individual kings and that tried to build a local European empire, decided to create overseas empires for fun and profit(while still bashing into each other from time to time) as it made more sense on every level. So we Westerners tend to conflate "empire" with "overseas empire".

China was already a huge empire before overseas empires could even be found never mind built and Russia built her own overland empire by going east all the way to the Pacific planting White western European settlers and overlords as they went.

China sees Taiwan and previously Tibet as "theirs" because they were in the past. Russia sees the same of Ukraine(and Belarus and Georgia). "Ukraine isn't even a real country" is an idea held by many in Russia.

When I see people from places like India and some parts of Africa supporting Russia and putin in this mess going on about how he's facing down "White Western imperialism", I think seriously lads, read a book and get a clue. putin's Russia couldn't be any more White, Western and imperialistic, never mind wacky christian on top.

Run Forest Run

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119589005#Comment_119589005

So you're not counting Ukraine as a "line in the sand" then?

Even though the Russians (not just Putin btw) have been warning the west for three decades now about meddling with nations near their border... and now thousands of Ukrainians are dying in another depressing war, and their cities are in ruins.

I'm not justifying Russia's actions to be clear. But it seems you may be wrong about the lack of follow through on threats.

We should probably be glad that it takes them a long time to react. Further escalation by Russia from this point, is either a war that spills over into the rest of Europe - which very likely goes nuclear - and/or even tighter squeeze on energy resources.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119593125#Comment_119593125

So for any neutral countries in the world, they are expected to believe the narrative of the cold-eyed psycho looking guy who gets his opponents locked up or killed? Or the democratically elected leaders of a country like the US?

Sorry but I'm just not buying the idea that he is some genius mastermind. He will never win hearts and minds. He can only win through struggle, conquest and domination. Therefore I see him as a less than impressive figure.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119593285#Comment_119593285

I would pay 1000 euro to hear some chippy Dub say it to his face. It would be as satisfying as kicking Bishop Brennan up the hole.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119594076#Comment_119594076

A war that spills over into Europe ???...now that would be very short war indeed, and one which so far he has studiously avoided...he's no fool. If the west had reacted to his previous provocations full stop, then there would never have been an invasion of Ukraine. As for the meddling bit, do you consider ex -USSR country's who apply to join NATO ( ironically to protect themselves from Russia) as being western meddling? All this western meddling / NATO etc being pedaled by Putin propaganda to justify his invasion of Ukraine. If there was not a Western Meddling / NATO threat available to use as an excuse, for sure Putin would have found another one. He wants Ukraine as a first step to restoring the Old Imperial Russia, with himself as the Tsar of all the Russia's. Thats his aim.

EOQRTL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119594076#Comment_119594076

Whataboutary

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119594376#Comment_119594376

The persona he projects is mainly for the home audience......westerners and other's ( US, Chinese, Indians etc, ) are less impressed. But for the home audience, staged managed videos of a bare chested Putin riding a horse in the river, extolling his Judo expertise etc. is the Real Deal for Russians. Then the murderous forays into foreign lands ( Poisoning in England) "Protecting ethnic Russian's " in enclaves, Georgia Crimea, and latterly, Ukraine, all feed into the hard man image. He projects fear, as he was taught while in the KGB. The real Putin is something much less impressive, he is a murderous thug, whose biggest fear is that he will die in the same manner as all those whose death's he himself ordered. Novichok, Bullet to the head, fatal car, horse riding, or even judo accident. Take your pick, or even use your imagination to add to the list.

Run Forest Run

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119594440#Comment_119594440

It's frankly irrelevant whether or not I consider it western/NATO meddling.

Russia clearly saw it that way, and said as much for 3 decades. (and again, not just Putin) This conflict really wasn't the big surprise that western mouthpieces try to portray it as. Shocking yes, as all wars are, but not necessarily a big surprise.

The point I was responding to, was around whether Putin/Russia are following through on their threats. Well, yes it appears they are prepared to follow through, but perhaps not at the speed some might expect.

It's obviously dangerous hubris to write these things off as empty rhetoric from a fading world power.

Run Forest Run

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119594476#Comment_119594476

So the Russians didn't consider Ukraine a "line in the sand" then? Is that your position?

I'm not asking whether you agree with them. And I'm not suggesting I do either.