Was the government right to put no limit on the amount of Ukrainian refugees in Ireland? Read OP

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706619#Comment_119706619

Ok. I’ll accept your anecdotal evidence and the GDPR statement. However, GDRP only applies where the data is directly linkable to a user / person. I’ve asked you for an aggregated % that isn’t linkable. So in your view, what % of claims are being spot checked. A ball park figure is fine.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706637#Comment_119706637

10%

CeCe12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706608#Comment_119706608

A cap must be placed and will be sooner or later.

Numbers wise, I think 40,000 was a reasonable and generous figure to put on it. Thats just my opinion, giving Ireland's own housing crisis. Obviously, we are past that figure now.

As I have said, I have not mentioned deportation and I am not willing to discuss it. To be honest it hasn't even entered into my thought process.

Nothing you claimed went over my head.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706655#Comment_119706655

Ok. Fair enough. I’ll assume your sources are credible. If that’s true it gives me some reassurance that our social support systems aren’t being entirely subverted.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706658#Comment_119706658

So, let's say the government agrees. 40,000's the limit. There appear to be more than that here. Now what? You're o.k. with them staying? If so, then you're o.k. with 55000 that's currently being bandied about. Why? Why cap at 40,000 if 55,000 is o.k.?

Or is you cap simply, 'no more.' If it is, how do you propose getting it implemented since the government has agreed to follow the EU directive? Posting about it on Boards.ie is unlikely to make a difference.

CeCe12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706673#Comment_119706673

The Government of Ireland and every other country operating under the directive, would have been asked to submit an estimate of figures for which they could reasonably accommodate. The opportunity was and is there for a revision.

ThoseSpikesAreSore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706394#Comment_119706394

Frontex puts the number of (Ukrainian) refugees a lot lower in Europe. 2.6 million. You can see on their Twitter if you scroll down a few tweets at Twitter/frontex

I thought that Micheál Martin or Leo Varadkar said that we are taking in more then we have to. I think that they might have said that up to 3 weeks ago but I am not sure for that.

It doesn't matter to me how many we take in if we have a plan for them when they arrive instead of sticking them in random temporary structures. It's madness like. There has to be a cap on it or it could become chaos.

The group near me are trying to figure out how to get to Canada. There are a lot of them filling out forms and 7 more left last week, they are looking at options but none of those that I spoke to said that they would go back to Ukraine.

iamwhoiam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706671#Comment_119706671

In my opinion There is absolutely no way that SW could possibly be able to means tests 10% of Ukrainian medical card applications accurately . You need to account for all savings in banks or savings anywhere else with bic and iban and every cent declared . You have to declare income from every single source including SW payments and all incomes from rentals or other sources . In the current climate in Ukraine it would be nigh impossible to get all that information verified from financial institutions etc in Ukraine .

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706697#Comment_119706697

I said that at the start and why France got ahead of the game for example met with CT comments. Everyone knows there would have been horse trading not like our idiots though come one come all. Always looking to be best in class to hell with the consequences.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706710#Comment_119706710

You’re probably right, but I just couldn’t be bothered arguing.

The volunteering vs. personally accommodating refugees highlights the level of delusion in play here.

No point killing any more neurons arguing the toss.

iamwhoiam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706753#Comment_119706753

So true ! I came to the same conclusion !

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706568#Comment_119706568

Like your claim a few days ago that there were hundreds of available hotels in Dublin this weekend when in fact there was less than 70 available this weekend and the following one.

What are you talking about? 70 hotels have availability; that's not 70 hotel rooms; it's 70+ hotels with the vast majority having multiple rooms.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706658#Comment_119706658

Why are you not willing to discuss deportation? You're arguing for a cap. You can't have one without the other. A cap means deportation. There's no way around it. What cap would you impose, and then where would you deport anyone over the cap to? Would deportations be voluntary, or would you force people to leave? How would you pick which ones got to stay and which ones were made leave? What measures would you bring in to cater for the consequences of Ireland breaking an EU directive?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706792#Comment_119706792

What are you talking about more to the point? No one mentioned rooms in that context anywhere bar yourself. Less than 70 hotels had availability not hundreds of hotels as was falsely claimed. No one mentioned rooms as in those hotels only had 1 room available. My god this stuff is as basic as it gets.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706834#Comment_119706834

How many have France taken in ? You know in the time we have their down to a trickle odd that. You have 2 options I will list below.

1 France has a cap.

2 Ireland is way more attractive due to perks.

pick one ?

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707036#Comment_119707036

I'm sorry, I can't actually parse most of what you wrote.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706845#Comment_119706845

/shrug - as of a few minutes ago, at least 70 hotels had availability for this weekend and for the weekend after. Hundreds of hotel rooms are available among those 70+ hotels. Yes, this is as basic as it gets.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707073#Comment_119707073

I usually find a post saying this is Code for don't' want to answer. 😀

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707074#Comment_119707074

She said hundreds of hotels had availability. It was less than 70 hotels then. What she said was and is incorrect. You’ve added rooms in to the equation now when that wasn’t what was discussed by anyone. I didn’t say there was only 70 rooms available. And yes it is as basic as it gets, yet some how you fail to grasp that lol

Patrick2010

I posted previously how France look for years previous income statement before deciding on how much benefits to pay but apparently others here believe there should be no means testing. No wonder Ireland takes in far more per capita than France.

0 accommodation on daft for rent in Ballybofey and surrounds.

Some 179 Ukrainian refugees are expected to start moving into a €7 million apartment complex in Ballybofey later this week.

<snip> copyrighted material removed

https://www.donegallive.ie/news/local-news/930516/179-more-ukrainian-refugees-for-ballybofey.html

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707097#Comment_119707097

it's only 6 months here IIRC.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707160#Comment_119707160

It’s the sort of thing that will only build resentment. Over 5k population give or take in Ballybofey/stranorlar. Zero private accommodation for rent. 150 Ukrainians currently residing in Ballybofey. 147 people on housing list many for years. Just 19 social houses built in last 10 years and 47 needed. 4.5 million recent refurbishment on over 45 flats and every single one of them given away just like that to house 179 refugees. There’s just no balancing act.

Strumms

UnBalancing act is just tipping the scale in favour of the needs and comforts of the Ukrainian people. Away from citizens and taxpayers.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707190#Comment_119707190

We will be in a shock for energy when all the tent cities get heaters for winter.

creeper1

Reading that article about the housing in Ballybofey, it looks like the housing is going to be used for people needing "international protection". They're not even going to be Ukrainians. It's going to be used for people from literally all over the world availing of this.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706208#Comment_119706208

If we want to help those in need we must be sure that we target those very people who need our help and not open the door and encourage people here for the benefits they see as easy to get 

Our money doesn’t grow on trees so we need to spend it wisely and reach out to those who are genuine refugees fleeing from danger . As it stands this is not the case and we all know it.

No we don’t all know what you’re suggesting, because the only evidence you have for your claims is your own opinion, and the opinions of a few of the handful of people moaning and groaning about Ireland fulfilling it’s international human rights obligations to provide help and support to people fleeing a war in their home country. They didn’t ask to be uprooted from their homes and their lives back home to have to travel to other countries and try and make do with whatever and however the Government chooses to accommodate them.

There’s nothing stopping anyone here from providing help and support to anyone they feel is in need of their help and support. But that’s not what’s happening. Instead, there are people arguing that Ukranian refugees are being given too much support, to the detriment of Irish people, when that’s simply not the case.

The Minister for Finance announced a budget the other day which laid out how much is being allocated to various sectors and departments to address issues in Irish society and to help Irish people who are struggling. They also announced how much money was earmarked for assisting Ukrainian refugees, about 3Bn, give or take a few million. When you’re talking about money on that scale, the idea of whatever individual refugees are getting and doing calculations on the back of a napkin is just fairly petty stuff, arguing that they’re receiving too much help is just not worth entertaining.

Only a small percentage of the money set aside for helping refugees is going towards the cost of paying people who have taken refugees into their homes, to help those people cover the extra unplanned expenses of doing so, and that payment is expected to increase -

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40958195.html

I don’t imagine any increase is going to incentivise people who weren’t interested in taking in refugees already, and those people who are taking in refugees can’t be just doing it for the money, because it’s pittance, frankly! It’s the same pittance is being given to refugees who are holed up in hotels and hubs and all the rest of it, in a country which is completely foreign to them, while their children are being enrolled in schools to try and acclimatise them to Irish life and ensure their right to an education is guaranteed. Initiatives like that also cost money, but depending upon your point of view, the money isn’t important. It’s certainly not important as far as I’m concerned, not least because I know no amount of money makes up for being displaced from their homes and the lives they had back in Ukraine, or the idea that their lives will never be the same again.

Arguing that they should be deprived of the pittance they are getting, or the services to which they are entitled, such as healthcare, education and so on, on the basis that it appears they’re being prioritised over other people, is just pretty spiteful stuff, and does nothing to help people who are being portrayed as being somehow worse off.

That’s why your claims that we all know something which absolutely nobody can know, just aren’t worth entertaining. It’s probably why the vast majority of people in Irish society aren’t resentful of Ukrainians or refugees or any other groups in society, because they’re not imagining that they’re worse off than everyone else, nor do they have any interest in pitting one group in society against another, because they know that there’s this thing called a national budget, which determines how money which the Government receives, is spent by Government, and they’re not interested in arguing that anyone should be deprived of benefitting from it.

The vast majority of Irish people are interested in providing support to people, and it’s only a tiny number of Irish people who are resentful of other people and what support they appear to be receiving, riling up other people who it’s plainly obvious they don’t actually give a damn about because they’re willing to use those people to argue that other people should be deprived of the support they’re getting.

It’s not about determining who is genuine and who isn’t, it’s about targeting people alright, but only because those people are receiving support which some people are of the belief they shouldn’t be getting. I personally prefer to leave those sorts of decisions up to the people who are responsible for making those decisions, as opposed to relying on individuals opinions whom it’s patently obvious what their intentions and motivations are in arguing that anyone should be deprived of support they are entitled to receive, and it’s a good thing that our Government aren’t interested in representing the miserable classes who seek to deprive people of support based upon nothing more than their own prejudices.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706710#Comment_119706710

That’s true. Some will be honest and give details of savings etc that they have access to. Otherwise it’s assessed on current income, be it from work or welfare. Yes, it’s not the same as what we have to do, but you must remember that it’s only for as long as the temporary protection lasts.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707194#Comment_119707194

I thought that the tents are not being used this winter?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706394#Comment_119706394

You have underlined my point. The countries around Ukraine are doing the majority of the heavy lifting, if a burden sharing mechanism was introduced we wouldn't be near the top of the list.

By the time it got to us, you would be dealing in fractions. But certainly the likes of France and Spain should be doing more per capita, I just don't know how this can be implemented.

Also the situation is still very much on a knife edge, introducing a mechanism of burden sharing now, which effectively is a target, may make sense, but could be catastrophic in the near future.

But the good news is the directive as it as designed has been beyond successful, in EU in some respects have never been more united.