Inner City Greening strategy - Some residents of our road don't want trees

wannabecraig

My road in the NIC has been included in the NEICGS program, which the counsel planning to put 11 trees on the road. I think this is fantastic and would really liven up a pretty grim road. However, the residents, mostly the ones that have been there a long time and are local to the area, don't want trees, for the following reasons.

Block the light in the evening (the other side of the road's front garden is south facing)

Leaves - They are worried about slipping on leaves and the council not cleaning the leaves so they block drains

People peeing on the trees

Reduction in the amount of parking on the road

Don't like trees (really)

There is now a meeting with the council next week to discuss. The ones who don't want are the most vocal, and I'm concerned now that the plan will be scrapped. Has anybody any experience with this? The meeting next week is with the residents and the council so I'd like to be as prepared as possible.

Seth Brundle

Usually in things like this, the most vocal are the ones against and everyone else stays quiet because they just don't want the hassle from the vocal ones. In terms of their claims:

• Block the light in the evening (the other side of the road's front garden is south facing) - the trees might block some light at certain angles but in general you'll probably find that a car or van parked outside might do much the same. Anyhow, how likely is it that the tree will be right outside their front window?
• Leaves - They are worried about slipping on leaves and the council not cleaning the leaves so they block drains - can they think of a street where someone slipped? I've always lived in estates with trees and never seen or heard of either slipping or blockages. Nonetheless, make the point to the council that there should be sufficient street sweeping. The residents could also get a brush out once in a while if they feel there is an issue.
• People peeing on the trees - if someone wants/needs a piss then they will go regardless. Also if that person doesn't have a tree then they will use a doorway!
• Reduction in the amount of parking on the road - now we're getting somewhere.
• Don't like trees (really) - pretty much everyone likes trees and if you don't like them then there is something wrong with you. I reckon it is more your previous point though.

Sam Russell

We had trees put in our road a number of years ago.

It has improved the road hugely, and makes the road much nicer to live in. It turned a grey dull road into a leafy avenue. Make sure the trees are a good variety.

Parking was a huge problem, but paid parking sorted that out, and was nothing to do with the trees. Cars and vans parking on the footpath damaged some of the trees, but they should not park there anyway.

The trees were put on the division between houses and if someone did object, (as one did) the trees were put somewhere else.

The leaves do fall (but only in the autumn) and need clearing. The council do not tend to do a good job, waiting they are wet, and eventually doing a big job clearing them.

Overall, 100% in fvour as are most residents.

Zebra3

Usually the presence of (mature) trees in a neighbour bump up house prices.

Odd that people object.

SuperBowserWorld

Yep, people make jokes about the leafy rich south side. But then don't want trees on their road.

From a purely selfish point of view the trees will increase the value of the properties on the road.

Also shade in hot weather.

Also, clearer, cleaner air.

Also, variety throughout the seasons.

Also, bird song and homes for birds and insects.

Also, the sound of the wind in the trees.

Also, something for children to look at apart from their phones.

I think some people have very very small minds.

Who would not want trees for free ?

SuperBowserWorld

Also, you need to look after the trees and don't let your kids break the trees. This is a big ask for people.

Edit ... Moved into a new estate years ago and all the newly planted trees on the entrance road were broken in half. They did manage to grow, stunted, after this.

But FFS.

Sam Russell

Once the trees are allowed, for about 10 to 15 years, to grow undamaged, either caused by vans and lorries backing into them, or by local kids thinking vandalism is great crack, they will be able to survive and become 'leafy' and home to squirrels and birds and insects.

Then the benefit of those trees will be evident to all, and their existence will be defended by all those who opposed their original planting.

@OP Just tell those who oppose the trees to go and look at all the leafy suburbs in South Dublin - and ask about why those places are favoured places to live in, as evidenced by the prevailing house prices. I suggest Ailesbury Road, Shrewsbury Rd, Elgin Road - all in Ballsbridge, or Westminster Road in Foxrock.

Zebra3

And Griffith Avenue on the northside.

I’d say there’s head cases out there who dream of those trees being replaced by car storage spaces.

slay55

I love trees but it’s a nuisance for car paint work with the sap

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119662883#Comment_119662883

Was going to post an image of Griffith avenue earlier to add some balance. 😊

Yeah, lack of trees says a lot about a place.

I'd say there will be a lot of people saying they are dangerous in storms etc , so they can chop them down for firewood.

Car parking spaces !!

For a country that did not invent motorized vehicles, doesn't manufacture them, has no oil, ... we'd sell the family silver and future generations for more and more cars.

Sam Russell

Most cars in Ireland spend most of the time parked - going nowhere. They also cost a lot to spend their time going nowhere. A bit like yachts, but they cost an awful lot more, and go much less from their moorings - just look at any marina.

Trees only fall in storms when they are old and diseased. Old - like 100 years. Diseased - like not checked regularly by the local council - again not a problem for a few generations.

Trees make a neighbourhood a much more pleasant place in which to to live. They make the air cleaner, and give a place for birds to rest and sing, and the opportunity for squirrels to run to escape the local dogs.

Who would be opposed to trees.

wannabecraig

I know the value of trees and also don't understand why people don't see the benefit, but I was wondering if some people object, will the project be scrapped or will trees just be reduced in number or put somewhere else on the road?

Sam Russell

In our case, one resident objected so they just moved them down the road to another suitable location.

They had a work order for so many trees and they planted that many.

getoutadodge

Same in my area. One road blocked the placement of trees..even those in containers. Double car driveway types. I got a container type placed in my front. Took a lot of wrangling and lobbying. Now instead of strange cars in my front window view I get to look at a silver birch and lavender etc all day every day. Lobby hard and persistently for the same in your area. The DCC people in the greening unit need your support to drown out the petrol heads.

SuperBowserWorld

The nicest parts of Dublin are where there and trees.

Makes the place and people so much calmer.

Take away the trees, welcome the cars and the zombie apocalypse.

Edit ... or at least a much higher rate of stress, depression, heart disease ..

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665367#Comment_119665367

Look around the country, people knock them in front of their house frontage because they want their houses to be clearly seen from the road, don't want to sweep up leaves, or don't want a tree falling on their house or any of the other reasons, justified or not, given above.

My elderly mother HATES trees and hates fallen leaves with a passion. If she could, she'd have them all levelled, she is of a generation that doesn't see any value in them, apart for firewood. A farmer local to me is giving Bolsonaro a run for his money with the amount of them he is razing, people obviously hate them outside of your echo chamber.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669979#Comment_119669979

This is an inner city street not down the country. Completely outside your echo chamber.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670118#Comment_119670118

Are people living in different areas a different species?

Not everyone is a tree-hugger, urban or rural.

SuperBowserWorld

We should divide the country in 2.

People who hate nature can live on one side.

People who don't can live on the other.

😝

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670214#Comment_119670214

Yeah. The country is full of dum dums who don't like nature alright.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670214#Comment_119670214

Yeah but the educated & intelligent ones know that trees are a positive addition to any environment. The ones that differ need to learn.

Sam Russell

You find tree lined avenues in the expensive areas of towns while tree-less roads are elsewhere.

dontmindme

Folks here who can't fathom how someone can have a different opinion to them about trees really need to take a long hard look at themselves.

Making the road darker is often a direct consequence to the amount and size of trees on the road.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670776#Comment_119670776

Not all opinions carry the same weight. They completely understand they have a different opinion, they just don't accept it.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669979#Comment_119669979

Why on earth would people want their house clearly seen from the road? How is that a reasonable excuse for not having trees?

You can't just say "justified or not". If they are not justified reasons they should be ignored.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119671840#Comment_119671840

Partly trying to show off I guess. And maybe partly to be able to see who was passing back in the day. Houses in the country weren't built using much sense back in the day.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119662891#Comment_119662891

can very much depend on the tree. sycamore would be one of the bad ones, because of the aphids which can feast on it, but it wouldn't be chosen as a street tree anyway.

magicbastarder

my wife used to field queries from the public in a local authority. some of those were very pointed 'YOUR trees are dropping YOUR leaves into MY garden'; once or twice she asked, 'do you want the tree removed?' and got a strident 'you leave MY tree alone' in response.

the sense of possession changes depending on how the question is phrased, clearly.

Citizen Six

I had a neighbour come to my door a few years back, seeking signatures from all the people on the street, to 'allow' people cut down the mature trees so they could put in driveways. She didn't get many signatures. She then applied to the council to put in a driveway, removing a tree in the process. And was rightly refused. Sad to say she fitted the stereotype, driving an XC90, and can't park it properly most of the time.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119675833#Comment_119675833

I thought XC90s have an auto park facility - it is called the hand brake - you just apply it when you stop, no matter where.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119675280#Comment_119675280

I'm surrounded by all sorts here, Ash, Beech, Oak, Elm, Lime and Chestnut. Sycamore is the worst, and Hornbeam the best for urban streets. Very clean.

Thelonious Monk

People really shouldn't have a choice in this matter, we need trees, our streets need trees, they should be put there and that's the end of it. Sap on your car, oh boo hoo.

There's a big ash tree in my front garden in Dublin, the only tree in the cul de sac, if I sell the house in a couple of years I have no doubt the next person will concrete the front garden for cars. It's sad really, I think trees like this should be protected legally, given the lack of them in Ireland.

magicbastarder

the law states you don't need a licence to fell a tree if it's within 100 foot of a house, IIRC.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119684273#Comment_119684273

I think it goes even further that you don't need a felling licence in an urban area, not just 30m/100 feet of a house or building.

JohnnyChimpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119684273#Comment_119684273

Does it have to be your house, or will any house do?

Citizen Six

Any house really. It's based upon the idea that it could damage the house I guess.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119685642#Comment_119685642

Some trees do damage houses.

The list of trees below are capable of damaging foundations by root growth.

Norway maples, silver maples, oaks, ash, poplar, walnut, cherry, cottonwood, and sycamore trees.

Poplars are particularly good at blocking drains. Cherry roots run along the ground. Poplar trees grow to a huge height, and roots spread a long way. Leylandii are awful, and grow quickly but are very ugly after a decade or so, killing every bit of undergrowth, sterilizing the ground - it is unlikely they would be used in street locations because of this.

magicbastarder

leylandii also cannot be trimmed as harshly as a deciduous tree, so that's another reason it's totally unsuitable.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119684715#Comment_119684715

Just to be clear, you can't just go around chopping down any tree within 100ft of your house, it has to be on your own property.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119687991#Comment_119687991

I know all about leylandii. Have a bunch of them, about 25 years old. Totally out of hand now. It's not just the height, but also the depth of them.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119693384#Comment_119693384

And the lower branches to die off if they are trimmed incorrectly - if there is a correct way to trim them.

They end up being bald at the bottom and as ugly as could be - not trees at all, more a weed.

magicbastarder

i took out two leylandii hedges when i moved to where we live (not far from DCU); one was the full width of the garden (about 12m); 4m tall and about 3m deep. the other was about 10mx3mx2m. that was laborious but rewarding.

bb1234567

Not liking trees is not a valid reason on shared public realm. If they don't like them, they have the choice to have a barren private back garden devoid of tree life. They provide many objective and undeniable benefits to human health and the environment.

Ger Roe

Trees are a great addition to a road or housing estate, but there needs to be a clear management and maintenance plan for the future.

I speak as someone who could not get Wicklow County Council to take responsibility for a roadside tree that had grown far too big to be safe. It was as wide as the verge it was planted in and far higher than the houses in the bungalow estate where it was located. I was years trying unsuccessfully to get then to commit to a position - either it was their responsibility, or it wasn't - getting an official position was impossible. It was eventually taken down in the height of a recent storm when it began to lift and lean towards my house. The council hastily sent a JCB to prop it up, until the tree surgeon they had on standby for the storm, could get to it.

All fine and grand to plan to plant trees on the road, but not fine and grand when they become a danger and everyone runs from the responsibility of maintaining them.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119693987#Comment_119693987

How did you deal with the brash? Did you have a chipper hired?

murphaph

That's crazy that you can fell trees in urban areas, just because! We live in a dorm town of Berlin these days. We have a sick Acacia on our property but we cannot just cut it down as it's a protected species (almost everything is) so we had to pay €45 to apply for a felling licence. The chap from the town council was here on Tuesday to appraise the tree. He said it can go. Felling a protected tree without permission can cost you a fine of up to €100k here. It has to be painfully high or developers would pay no heed to it. As the tree is sick, we are not obliged to plant a replacement but if it was healthy we would be, assuming they'd let us fell it at all (they have to let you fell it if it's in the way of a property that you wish to build and you have received planning permission or the property is exempt from pp).

I never really noticed how barren many Dublin streets are until I moved to Berlin and then realised that almost every street is tree lined. It makes a huge and overwhelmingly positive difference IMO. The only downside was the sticky pollen or whatever it is that comes off linden trees. But we were very sad the day the linden tree in front of our apartment was felled due to illness in the days when we still lived in town. It was all "open" all of a sudden.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712667#Comment_119712667

i wish. couldn't find a narrow access chipper for rent anywhere; the side gate is 80 or 85cm wide and i'd have had to drag the cuttings 40m down the side of the house and into the front garden. so i shredded them in-situ with a domestic shredder. anything thicker than my thumb was kept for the stove though.