Protecting yourself against the impending Sinn Fein "Wealth" grab

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379234#Comment_121379234

I agree with some of what you say.

You complain about waste and overspending in the HSE, and I agree with you, yet you plan to vote for SF, who will throw even more money at the HSE, without reforms.

I would love if SF tackles the doctors, the unions, drive efficiencies, introduce EHR, etc., but as they are a socialist party, they will pamper trade unions, and do whatever the unions want.

I would love to be proved wrong.

Quick example: we paid GP double what the UK paid to administer the COVID vaccine. Would SF be tough enough to reduce those fees?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379815#Comment_121379815

Only if you sell it.

Developer owns a piece of land, developer builds office block, developer rents out office block. No transfer of ownership, no payment of stamp duty.

There may be stamp duty due on leases, but that is a separate issue.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379234#Comment_121379234

The new childrens hosp replaces two/three older hosps.

The older hosps will close, and the staff will move to the new hosp.

Temple St is 4km from the new hosp.

Crumlin Hosp is 2.5km from the new hosp.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379837#Comment_121379837

The problem with overpaying is that the Dail is chock full of developers, landlords, Doctors and Lawyers. Turkey's never vote for Xmas or pay cuts.

SF are not so burdened so I would say, where they can, they will take on those vested interests. I forsee the various establishment elites playing hardball and crashing the economy to try to drive SF out. We will see.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379234#Comment_121379234

Your frustration with the housing situation and govt spending is totally understandable and i think it reflects a lot of peoples opinions.

But there is good reason to think SF will nose dive the economy.

They are anti FDI. They want to increase taxes on highly paid mobile workers. The very people that generate all our income tax in the first place and that can easily move and work abroad if they are taxed into doing so.

They are unlikley to oversee the development of more homes and I think they will actually REDUCE the number of new completions, through their demonising of investment funds, many of whom make large scale developments viable in the first place!

SF logic is, remove the investment fund, so the 300 apartments will go to the private sale market.

Reality is, remove the funds and the development doesnt get built in the first place, because its not a safe investment for the developer. Especially facing into the economic headwinds we see today and for the forseeable.

As a side note - The current govt will exceed the housing target for this year and again next year, in all probability.

In summary, I get your frustration.

But change for changes sake is not a good reason to change - especially when the outlook for that new change looks bleak from the start.

Doc07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379882#Comment_121379882

reasonable point re vested interests although not sure about chock full, think there is one-two Doctors in Dail (and one in the Senate )

Also not sure we have a real ‘elite, elite’ as such who can stomach and/or benefit from crashing the economy just to spite/banish SF , akin to the so called elite Brexiters who apparently benefited from destroying UK

Dtoffee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379852#Comment_121379852

As the 2024 opening date for the new children's hospital at St James's creeps closer it's feared that the issue could lead to delays in recruiting enough staff.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/health/national-childrens-hospital-facing-chronic-26631725

My daughter is a nurse and she is adamant that they will have nowhere near enough staff as the current shortage is only getting worse and recruitment takes ages to have sanctioned.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379882#Comment_121379882

If voting in SF will lead to crashing the economy, whether by outside forces in your opinion, or SF incompetence in mine, then surely voting for SF is the ultimate example of a turkey voting for Christmas?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379117#Comment_121379117

So we need more dereliction and vacancy taxes as well, good point.

Dont Be at It

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121377260#Comment_121377260

It did in its hat turn a profit. The initial value of the loans they "bought" for 33 billion was almost 80 billion. They turned a "profit" on this knockdown amount of about 3 billion. The real loss was over 40 billion.

The only winners with NAMA were the funds that bought the assets at knockdown value at the bottom of the market and flipped them within a few years for massive profit.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379837#Comment_121379837

Comparing cash amounts internationally is meaningless. What's the cost of living living, cost of accommodation, cost of insurance for Irish doctors vs UK?

hymenelectra

Getting straight to the point, the purpose of an economy is improve society.

The Irish economy is not improving society.

The Irish economy is broken. Clinging to it like a chimpanzee as the be all and end all is precisely why we are where we are.

Has the booming economy translated into..

Better housing conditions? Laughable.

Increased staffing such as teachers, gardai, nurses, doctors and so? The absolute opposite.

Better healthcare? No chance.

Gleaming new infrastructure like hospitals, prisons, schools, transport, maybe even superflous aesthetic architecture and art? Not a chance.

Just consider the total failure above. It's not just one sector or one region failing, its the whole shebang.

The Irish economy is a two trick pony. Multinational tax scams, followed by migrant led asset inflation that benefits a tiny minority. That's it, that's all she wrote.

Everything has been sacrificed at the altar of this pholosophers stone, and it is working out precisely as one could have predicted years upon years ago.

If sinn fein tank the economy, good riddance. Just like a condemned building its going to collapse one way or the other because its very purpose is rotten.

m2_browning

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121380569#Comment_121380569

You need to travel more, I recommend starting with Sinn Fein administered Northern Ireland

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121380683#Comment_121380683

Fierce bang of reality, more like.

Wheres all the purported money gone?

The emperors new clothes is all it ever was, there's sweet fook all to show for a decade of economy economy economy economy, while the absence of it is glaring you in the face every second of the day.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121380569#Comment_121380569

Increased staffing such as teachers, gardai, nurses, doctors and so? The absolute opposite.

Your statement is false.

HSE headcount has increased strongly.

Have a look at the data:

https://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/resources/our-workforce/workforce-reporting/employment-reports.html

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121380748#Comment_121380748

It's not about literal numbers.

If a business needs 100 extra staff to function, hires 50, it can boast about hiring 50 more people all it wants.

The point is that it's still 50 short.

Just watch out for practically any headline on the country at large "not enough this, not enough that, worse than ever" etc.

That's this whole country in a nutshell, illiterate economic bullsht that, a decade later, clearly doesn't add up.

Geuze

The HSE went from 119,813 staff to 143,075 in under four years.

That is an extra 23,262, or 19.5% extra in four years.

We over-spend on healthcare, relative to the age profile of our population.

When you hear anybody calling for more spending, bear in mind that we already overspend.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121380820#Comment_121380820

That's just more numbers that completely sidesteps demand.

To boot, if it were just about healthcare alone, it would be a complicated discussion. But when you see precisely the same results coming from just about every facet of society, schools, housing, prisons, transport and so on...all suffering eerie similarity, there's something much larger afoot.

A serious case of missing the forest because individual trees are in the way.

This stuff, despite best efforts at obfuscation, is super simplistic. There's nothing more elusive than the obvious and here's just one micro canary in the coalmine

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/02/27/healy-rae-ukrainian-accommodation-contract-worth-more-than-160000/

Strumms

Sinn Fein initially were vehemently against the bedroom tax in NI, then worked to bring it in…

so what they say is one thing, then what they do is another… You cannot trust them, well, you never could we knows, leopards / spots etc :)

what next, people with a big / reasonable sized garden, tax it to encourage them to sell it for housing ?

they might call it ‘EAT’…. Excess acreage tax… because if that lot get in they’ll be eating away at anything and everything people here ‘worked’ for….. to sort their lot out and to encourage more support from certain groups.

they’ve already promised to ‘EAT’ away at certain facets of democracy..

hymenelectra

Sinn fein are likely to get into government.

They likely will torpedo themselves by trying not to be too dissimilar from the current disaster artists.

A couple years to prove themselves and turn this ship around, or a couple years to prove they are no better.

Ireland, and Europe, is probably looking at increasingly frequent elections and votes of no confidence as the electorates impatience grows with the multitude of outstanding issues. Quicker turnarounds that'll be a political version of goldilocks porridge; it'll keep going until its just right.

The decades long inertia of the current political landscape is going to be shattered in short order, methinks.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121380855#Comment_121380855

I don't think any kind of numbers or stats would change your mind, to be fair. You have your agenda well set for us to see.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121380423#Comment_121380423

It won't be SF crashing the economy.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381041#Comment_121381041

An agenda!

I let a stone fall from my hand to the ground to demonstrate gravity. "Look at this dude and his agenda!"

To the utter contrary, anyone who fails to see the brutally obvious facts of the matter, has no other explanation whatsoever, nevermind holistic, yet continues to bat for ignorance...that's a god damned agenda. Pavlovian response mechanism, indoctrination. Whatever you want.

What the poster above is doing is saying the equivalent of "but look at this, we built 20k homes last year!". Yes, that's truthful. But I'm pointing out that it doesn't matter a solitary fook when a 100k extra people arrived willy nilly.

Ignoring that type of overall truth is an agenda in itself.

Try doing 2 hours of work a day and boasting about it to your boss that needs 8 hours done.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381183#Comment_121381183

Make yourself a cup of tea pal, you need to calm down.

Kermit.de.frog

A wealth tax is stupid when we can't even get international executives to move here and pay tax because our taxes are already too high and we don't have the living standards/services.

The real problem in this country is too many on lower incomes are outside the tax net.

Don't expect Sinn Fèin to fix that.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381327#Comment_121381327

Well that's certainly a rebuttal.

No arguments, and not yourself specifically, to contradict the obvious. Rarer and rarer thing as the dust settles.

But that silence only highlights the truth even more.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381500#Comment_121381500

Your posts really don't present any evidence at all, nothing.

That's just more numbers that completely sidesteps demand.

Like I said, a poster presented facts to you, and this was your response. You have your mind made up, the world is out to get you.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381419#Comment_121381419

...wealthy individuals generally spend most of their income and wealth purchasing and investing in the accumulation of assets such as property and land, this only truly benefits those that own such assets, i.e. it causes the further accumulation of the ownership of assets, and not a trickle down effect, i.e. it directly screws non asset owners, which are primarily young generations. keep playing this game, and you ll eventually cause rising tensions so much so, that it leads to the rise of extremes, extreme voting and other extreme social outcomes, which could potentially lead to catastrophic consequences for all such as trump and brexit etc

m2_browning

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381731#Comment_121381731

People don’t live forever and state takes a large cut on inheritance

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381419#Comment_121381419

They won't 'fix' that issue because they know that there's more to tax than income tax.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381755#Comment_121381755

...people have a tendency to have kids and grandkids etc etc, again, keep allowing people to accumulate wealth, results in rising social dysfunctions, including crime, mental health issues, addiction problems etc etc, america is a fine example if you leave such polices run for extended periods of time, a perfectly safe place to live for all, perfectively stable!

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381718#Comment_121381718

Like, what don't you get about the problems in this country?

You surely must be some part of the current shower in charge of this mess. Nobody could be so willfully ignorant as to what the issue is when "we did X, which is far below what is needed or projected to be needed, but arent we great for doing less than needed?"

No. No you're not great for doing ridiulously less than the bare minimum. And it's worth pointing out.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381731#Comment_121381731

Of course, assets are the most expensive items.

They also have to eat, drink, drive, have water, electricity, shop....and we'd get a lot more tax in general if we could actually attract them.

But nope begrudgery and populism has to win in Ireland...

So we'll get SF. In terms of populism it will be FF on steroids just with less competent and qualified individuals running things. They are going to wreck this country. It's going to be magnificent seeing those who vote for them flee in terror when they see the state they'll leave this place in.

Even their prospective Finance Minister, for example, has a conviction for abusing a Garda and is a two time college dropout.

And that's just him - it gets worse as you go through their representatives.

I'm no apologist for the other parties but I can see what's coming if they get in.

I think give them a minority government and let them stew.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381796#Comment_121381796

Trickle down economics is a fantasy dreamed up by those who benefit, and it's not you or I.

"Respect your better me boy, that the only way".

Done with that flavour of bullshit.

m2_browning

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381771#Comment_121381771

But we don’t live in a state that lets you accumulate wealth

We have one of the most progressive tax systems

We have the most hidden fees and charges for which lower paid avoid

We have high capital gains and extortionate unique tax system on ETFs

We have huge inheritance taxes

Like the saying goes there are two certainties, death and taxes, except taxes get turned up to 11 in Ireland

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381803#Comment_121381803

Wait until you see squander down economics.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381778#Comment_121381778

I haven't said there aren't problems in Ireland, show me a country without any problems...i'll wait.

I am not part of any "shower", I don't actually live in Ireland full-time, but the few months of the year I am home, the picture you are trying to paint just doesn't exist. You are playing the victim pretty heavy here.

You are painting Ireland as some 3rd world country that is struggling to keep the water on. It is not.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381856#Comment_121381856

The voice of a true believer.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381867#Comment_121381867

I can see what's coming, and anyone with their brain turned on can see all the trends accelerating.

Housing, healthcare, education, transport, all have very serious problems associated. And it isn't that they came out of nowhere, they are in a downward spiral year in and year out.

Depending on your position int his country, things are dire. The obvious worry is that they are getting worse. For example the growing homelessness.

Are we a third world country? No.

But as a country with purported money coming out of its arse, yet more and more going wanting, the third world style of governance is becoming more apt. Call it hyperbole, but its an absolutely insane situation, that the wealthier we are the poorer we are? Come again?

Very, very American. And there isn't anyone about to hold up American society as a great thing to achieve.

The way that successful economies are built is by building a skulled workforce and then ensuring they achieve a standard of living which ensures that they stay to enrich the economy. We succeeded in the first part but failed in the second. We bleed the skilled workers we spent so many resources training because they cannot afford to live at home in the mother country.

The thing that is common to all countries with similar issues is the belief that letting great men create great businesses will solve all economic woes, the great man trickle down economy myth. All it creates is deeply divided societies of resentment and discontent.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121382003#Comment_121382003

Takes way too long. Who can waiting a generation or more to make the big bucks?

Much better to commodify and hyperinflate assets you already own by bringing in pre-grown worker units, thereby killing two birds with the same stone: cheap, exploitable labour, and the siphoning of nationals wealth through the increased cost pressure.

Sure, it throws the future under the bus. But, well, all the moolah today!

L.Ball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381891#Comment_121381891

What does this actually mean?

"Oh sorry you can't get a mortgage, sorry your rent is 3/4 of your wages, sorry you've to wait 18 hours in A&E, sorry your outpaitent appointment was cancelled, sorry your house was burgled and the gardai took 2 hours to get there, sorry the burgler has 90 convictions but he's had a rough time so he'll be getting a suspended sentence, sorry your kids school hasn't enough teachers, sorry the cost of living keeps going up and up.... but looks we're on a list on wikipedia!"

Idbatterim

Sf wealth grab, lol! Aren't ffg thieving over half your salary over a pittance? Literally even the poor people's income , I e 40k is hit with over a fifty percent marginal rate...

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121385980#Comment_121385980

This is childish nonsense. Do you think we are really going to slash our tax base and if so what areas of spending will it be taken from?

Montage of Feck

I'm blocking up the windows to avoid paying the window tax.

Idbatterim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121385994#Comment_121385994

They could start getting value from money for our spend for a start... won't tax property, thats a token gesture. Huge amounts outside of the tax net, paying as good as nothing in income taxes. Very unusual situation v our European peers, but no doubt, us world leaders at everything, know best...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379471#Comment_121379471

I'd almost like him to walk into the finance department only for the GenSec to say welcome minister, here's the books, we actually haven't the cash to do all you say you want to do.

In reality, the thought of it scares me no end.

L.Ball

well seeing as how many members of Sinn Fein still "allegedly" receive tax money from drug dealers they could they expand that to a national scale, big money to be made there.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381731#Comment_121381731

Young people have always been in the minority in terms of asset ownership.

Young people dont stay young. They get older. Then they accumulate assets.

Thats how its always worked and ever thus shall be.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381947#Comment_121381947

Lots of people do have lots of money in Ireland.

You only have to look at key wealth metrics to see that. Record household savings (over a trillion euro) being a key one.

There are some people struggling (when was that ever not the case) but there are plenty of people whom are not struggling at all.

I am not saying things are perfect, but sometimes when i read these doom and gloom assesments, I think of the last time I was out in Dublin on a Thursday night and how the restaurants and bars are packed and the people I knkw and see going on multiple foriegn holidays, buying new cars outright without finance etc.