Budget 2023: How does 'Older people and people living with dementia' run up costs of €2.4bn euro?

maceoin.D.

Was just reading through the budget there, and while I don't want to come across as a disrespectful youth that doesn't care about older people (I do), I can't understand why there has been this much allocated to a fairly small section of society. For comparison, the defense budget is around €1.2bn euro, just under half of the total dedicated to older people and people living with dementia.

There was only €215 million set aside for the homeless people budget, and with the homelessness numbers rising as high as they are, I think this is a very unpopular decision. What are your thoughts?

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058265642/budget-2023-how-does-older-people-and-people-living-with-dementia-run-up-costs-of-2-4bn-euro

You're talking apples and oranges there. We have over 702,000 people aged 65. So, 2.4bn would only be €3,500 per head. They are hardly a small section of society.

These people also, to a large extent, contributed tax and PRSI during their working lives to contribute to pensions and allowances. Many will require more heating and medical care than those younger than them.

NIMAN

The 'grey' vote is a big thing in Ireland.

Got to keep the old ones happy.

Plus, as said above, they deserve it.

Sam Russell

There are few points worth considering wrt older people and the very young.

a) Older people in nursing homes and the very young in creche are cared for by workers earning little above the minimum wage, even if they are well qualified, either formally or by working in the sector for a long time. Why do we not pay them like nurses or teachers?

b) When older people (over, say 70) present at a GP or A&E, they tend to have multiple problems that require significant skilled treatment. As a consequence they tend to spend a long time in A&E or are referred to A&E by the GP. A special A&E needs to be set up for those in this category, with specially skilled doctors and nurses capable of giving the care required. It should preferably be in a different section in the hospital, away from the regular A&E.

c) Young children are subject to falls and other such everyday small injuries. If they go direct to A&E, they must pay €100 but not if they go via the GP, which would be no charge. That needs fixing. There are a lot of worried parents that appear to need guidance as to what is serious and what is just unfortunate - an education programme needs to be set up for them, as the modern parents may not have access to an all-knowing granny.

d) Dementia is a terrible condition for the sufferer and their relatives. They need all the support the state can muster.

e) The 'grey vote' contains many very experienced and long lived members of society who have seen the mistakes that the State has made in the past and would not like to see them repeated. They should not be ignored or pilloried because they know better.

Aside - [Is the €2.4 billion made up of pensions and other social protection measures for the elderly? If so, those pensions are due to the pensioners as a right.]

Strumms

Nursing homes are massively expensive.

Homecare the same.

depending on the levels of dementia the person can be a danger to themselves as well as whoever they live with.. so homecare may no longer be appropriate…

ive two neighbours, who in the last 18 months ended up in the same care home…the wife of one poor man told me her husband he tried to put his dinner in the washing machine to heat it up thinking it was a microwave and wrecked a new machine. That’s how bad it gets..with him I gather things went downhill fast as he was out walking by himself, not long before, recognising me after a few seconds thinking.. A very fit guy… but the mind…

They are encouraged to keep their independence as long as possible with physio, psychological interventions etc… that’s all expertise that costs… as their physical wellbeing deteriorates, they need accessible bathrooms installed, could be 10 grand per bathroom, and other adaptations such as a stairlift before the inevitable of going to a care home.

maceoin.D.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119690367#Comment_119690367

Aside - [Is the €2.4 billion made up of pensions and other social protection measures for the elderly? If so, those pensions are due to the pensioners as a right.]

No, pensions would fall under welfare. Still scratching my head at this one. I've actually worked in A&E myself and the special A&E is more like a separate area than a separate A&E. This would also fall under general healthcare expenditure, as these areas sometimes have slightly younger people in them as well, say around 50-60 who probably need some special care. You might also get people aged around 70 waiting on beds in the corridors for days in our hospitals as well, so I wouldn't guess its that.

maceoin.D.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119690451#Comment_119690451

Nursing homes and homecare are massively expensive, but, unfortunately, most of those expenses fall on the elderly! Either that or their family members.

My mother is a carer herself so I know exactly what you're talking about when it comes to people with dementia. She is always telling me stories about the bizarre things they get up to. It is serious stuff when it gets bad, but it usually isn't bad for too long before the person passes away. Really sad but at least they do seem to go fairly peacefully.

noodler

Fair deal is a good chunk of it

Im not sure why you think its particularly big tbh OP.

It is a massive cohort requiring extensive care.

Your mention of a homelessness budget sounds slightly off to me though. The housing budget is a couple of billion.

Very rough breakdown of the spend here (2021)

https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/publications/performancereports/management-data-report-december-2021.pdf