Will Ulster bank do deals or make a huge loss on Offset Flexible Tracker Mortgages.

phormium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120519311#Comment_120519311

Not a peep, had lunch with UB staff member few days ago who has one too and they haven't heard anything either, although I always believe the staff are often the last to know!

aoraki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120519311#Comment_120519311

I'm not expecting to hear anything from them until June/July at the earliest (based on their last communication).

In the meantime, just sit back and enjoy that offset :P

Cal07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472169#Comment_120472169

I'd also be interested in joining such a group.

Cal07

I know that UB sold a number of debt books in the past and the debts (some performing and non-performing loans) were sold at w/down of 40%-60%.

aoraki

They don't seem to be in any hurry, do they? It's mid-summer now and it looks like nothing has changed really. From looking at other threads about the Ulster Bank closure it looks like some of the Tracker mortgages that were sold to AIB ages ago are still with Ulster Bank and haven't been moved yet.

I think we'll be here for a while folks. I might check back in again around halloween to see if there is any movement by that stage 😜

Skygord

Almost the end of June and not a peep from UB about our offset tracker.

I'm currently offsetting the entire mortgage amount, and waiting with '(no) interest' 😉 to see what will happen!

aoraki

I wonder if this is going to impact the timeline of Ulster Bank's disposal of it's mortgage books;

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2023/07/11/ulster-bank-to-appeal-high-court-defeat-in-tracker-mortgage-dispute-with-ombudsman/

If that goes against them they might be in a bit of a pickle.

Cal07

Similar position here

Genie Genie

Hi,

I rang Ulster Bank on 14 July for an update.

I have been an Offset holder since 2007 (formerly First Active). I now owe €147,000 and it is not linked to any current account.

I was told by an advisor on 14 July, who seemed very confident and knowledgeable that:

1. A decision will be made in the next four to six weeks (four weeks from now, but as with all these things could be pushed out).
2. The bank will be maintaining a presence in Ireland at Leopardstown.
3. He does n't think the mortgages will be leaving this Jurisdiction. (I think they would have left long ago if they could have done that).

My tuppence worth is:

1. I would obviously love a write off, but it looks like whatever bank takes it over will get it, not individual customers.
2. 5000 offset customers with an average debt of €150,000 is €750 million. It is simply unrealistic to expect that to be wrote off, although part of it could be.
3. This could go on for a few years as Ulster Bank seem to have a huge problem offloading them.

McSween

My direct debit is still with Ulster Bank (first active mortgage

Technophobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964994#Comment_120964994

I didn't get a letter yet other than one stating the ECB rate had gone up and my new payment was x...and x being way biiger than it should have been for an ECB basis point rise.... So I rang them and learned of the error...scant details from both yesterday as you would expect

Jim2007

MOD:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058308934/aib-reassures-tracker-mortgage-customers-over-repayments

I tried to clean up this as best I can and move stuff to a separate thread. Sorry if I missed or deleted something I shouldn't have.

McSween

i was told by an UB (ex First Active) employee, prior to the bank’s exit from the market, that if we moved house the rate and product could come with us but theyd allow us a ‘porting’ rate of 2% compared with 1.15% at the time. Obviously 1.15 has risen quite a bit but I imagine this is out the window now. If we sold our house today we owe 133k (with 100k in the current account offset). Carrying this product to a house move would be great.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125583#Comment_121125583

I availed of this I moved bringing my tracker rate with me and I got a bigger mortgage as far as I am aware this is still on of the terms and conditions that you can do it once on the old First Active mortgage and they cannot up the rate they have to keep the same tracker rate.

McSween

do you think it is still possible? As we all know the UB staff arent the most clued up on the product.

phormium

You could move the offset to a new property and retain the tracker of 1.15 over ECB but to the best of my knowledge only on the amount outstanding, if you require additonal funds they are not going to give you that at the old tracker rate and will probably need a split mortgage, offset for original amount and standard mortgage for additional. Don't know how that would work now though! Be sure to draw down all available facility to increase the amount outstanding on transfer.

McSween

Thanks very much both. Yes Phormium that is what we were told two years ago - like you said. So if these mortgages were taken on we could split like you said. A bit crap we are asking each other these questions due to the lack of knowledge of staff

coffee to go

I actually wonder how many got accidentally shafted by the lack of knowledge of UB staff on the features and benefits of the Offset Mortgages.

Certainly when we first approached the branch staff in 2017 about moving house they initially categorically stated that the offset tracker would have to be closed and another non-offset fixed/variable opened. When we contested this with evidence from our original paperwork, this position was changed to “you can move tracker on one occasion only” and our move proceeded from there. Still left an air of shenanigans about the whole thing though 🤔

But I am wondering just how many people who had forgotten about the ‘home mover’ feature of the offset (or didn’t know about it in the first place) got booted off their trackers when they moved, because the UB staff either didn’t know about it or were purposely not going out of their way to highlight it. And would there be any recourse for them now? (Extra layer of complexity from the fact the offsets are still homeless notwithstanding!)

kenif

We moved home in 2020. Had 45k and 15 years outstanding. Borrowed 280k on a 25 year mortgage at all the original terms and conditions.... 1.15% over ECB on the full amount for the full term of 25years.

Was a bit of talk of porting the 45k and new mortgage on remainder but that was the mortgage advisor in UB not understanding the product and confusing it with other tracker mortgages.

McSween

Very good point @coffeetogo . I had to contact a girl who worked in FA in the 2000s to see could she help. She put me in contact with somebody who was originally FA, knew the product and was in UB. He saved us a lot of money. I didnt know what i had signed up to at the time. I think he has moved bank now with UB branch closures. Why wouldnt he with the uncertainty. So who advises us now. Unreal.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121127240#Comment_121127240

You tell them it was one of the terms and conditions when you signed up tell them it was pointed out to you as an option its a one time move you will not be able to do it twice and then let them come back to you as if they cannot find it they will have to take your word on it as in the end it is one of the terms and conditions I remember the guy in ulster bank saying he had to go and look at actual paper work to see this as its not any where on their computer systems.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121127274#Comment_121127274

This is not correct you can get the additonal borrowing on the the same rate I did it in 2020 and upped my mortgage by more than 180k on the current tracker rates. This was in the original terms and cons of the old first active mortgages

phormium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128947#Comment_121128947

Must have a read, still have a copy of t&c. An even better deal then that I remembered!

aoraki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121127240#Comment_121127240

Are Ulster Bank still underwriting new lending? I'm curious myself about this but I'd be surprised if you would get a new loan sanctioned at this point. Might be wrong though.

And in all my dealings with Ulster Bank about the offset mortgages, it was always the staff that were ex-First Active that were the most knowledgeable about this product and knew all the ins and outs. The Ulster Bank staff that didn't come from First Active were largely clueless about this product. In my limited experience anyway!

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121134642#Comment_121134642

If your mortgage is still with them they have to its one of the terms and cons of the original First Active mortgage. When asking just say that this was in the original tems and cons explained to you by the person in First Active and they have to honor it, its then up to them to find the information which will back up your right under contract to use this option.

aoraki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121134651#Comment_121134651

I know in the T&Cs that you can transfer the mortgage to another property but I would have assumed that would be subject to underwriting (as opposed from drawing down your available facility which didn't require underwriting). And I didn't think they were underwriting new lending anymore.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121134754#Comment_121134754

Its not new business its part of existing business as an option for the person to use they have to honor this

Cal07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125688#Comment_121125688

I also did that - 4yrs since April but its included in the original First Active T&C's. A friend fairly high up in UB advised me (OTR) as UB mortgage was trying to increase the rate but I maintained current rate and I was able to increase the mortgage significantly given loan to value on new property.

Cal07

Any updates out there regarding the future of the off-set tracker mortgages? Is it just going to be status quo for the next few years.

kenif

No updates.

Ulster bank are now earning 5.65% on these mortgages. Or even if you have a large deposit they are earning 4% on that.

These mortgages are a lot more attractive now than when they first announced their withdrawal. I don't know how badly they want rid of the Irish banking licence, or the costs involved in holding one. But my hope of some sort of worthwhile deal is fading.

aoraki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164561#Comment_121164561

Are the bank making money on these if you are offsetting the entire mortgage? The ECB deposit rate is less than the borrowing rate.

kenif

On your particular mortgage yes. Your money is already borrowed and now they are getting 4% on your deposit. It maybe a simplistic approach but Ulster Bank Ireland are no longer borrowing in any real way.

aoraki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121165222#Comment_121165222

But if the mortgage gets transferred to another bank, is the buying bank gonna be paying for those mortgages from money they have to hand? Or are they gonna need to borrow that money from the ECB? And if it's the latter will they be borrowing at most recent rates? Genuine question, I'm not sure how deals like this are structured and financed by the banks involved.

kenif

Me either. But they will have to get the deposits also and run the linked accounts. It will largely depend on the difference between loan value and deposits. So if it's a big enough write down then maybe. My guess and it's a pure guess is that Ulster Bank will keep the licence and ring fence this loan book. Then just see it out making a decent profit over the next few years using UK staff.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121165222#Comment_121165222

Absolute nonsense. You have no understanding of how financial products are constructed nor financed and I'm saying that after sending over three decades in banking.

You don't finance long term products with deposits nor rely on the ECB, who at best is a lender of last resort.

Jim2007

Closing this thread as it is has run it's course. Do not try to reopen it.