Will Ulster bank do deals or make a huge loss on Offset Flexible Tracker Mortgages.

phormium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120184705#Comment_120184705

Says nothing interesting other than basically you have no branch to go into for transactions!

Uatstau

Anybody else been getting slightly threatening phonecalls from UB about their tracker mortgage? I am being told I am in violation of the T&C on the mortgage because I have more money in the deposit account than is due on the loan. Is this part of the strategy to get us to cash in?

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120291112#Comment_120291112

So you got a typical business call from the bank advising you that you were in breach of the terms of a contract you signed up to. So have you check the terms and are you in fact in breach of those terms? ***Please stick to the facts, no dramatics***.

TheRiverman

Am I missing something here, why are there still people with accounts in Ulster Bank ? They are closing all their Branches in the Republic Of Ireland. I left them in June 2022.

phormium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120291371#Comment_120291371

Yes indeed you are missing something, this discussion is about the Offset mortages and they have not been sold/transferred to anybody and consequently UB have told us Offset customers who have both mortgage and facility (current) account attached to mortgage that we do not need to do anything for now

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120291112#Comment_120291112

I have an offset and have more money on deposit than owed for many years, have never heard a word from UB about it and nor would I expect to as there no prohibition on that.

aoraki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120291112#Comment_120291112

Are you referring to an Ulster Bank Offset Tracker mortgage? I have one of those and am offsetting the entire amount of the mortgage with savings and haven’t heard a peep from UB and am not aware of any T&C that says I cannot do such a thing.

What T&C have you breached? What are they threatening you with? Your post is extremely vague and is hard to take seriously.

Uatstau

I should correct one error in my original post. I am referring to an OFFSET mortgage.

In an effort to be less vague, let me give you some facts. I have more money in the savings than in the mortgage account. On two occassions in the recent past I have been phoned by the bank and told that I must remove money from the savings account because it is not allowed to have a balance greater than is due on the mortgage. I asked them why, because as far I was aware this was allowed and I was not in violation of any of the T&C. I asked them specifically to state which rule I was in violation of, and they could or would not, except to repeat that I couldn't have more in the savings half. I asked them to send me a letter saying precisely what the problem was. Strangely enough, no letter was forthcoming... and I still have more money in savings than is owed on the mortgage.

Therefore, I asked on this forum whether other people have also been phoned about this, in order to understand if this was some general strategy that UB is employing, or whether I got contacted by a particularly keen minion. I also maintain that I find this slightly threatening behaviour, to cold call me about money in my account, and insist I do something without justification, all because they want to resolve a problem they have with mortgages they can't shift.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120293585#Comment_120293585

MOD: Right I have asked you a very specific question: Have you read the terms & conditions and are you in compliance with them, repeating your original post in another format is NOT answering that question.

Uatstau

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120293676#Comment_120293676

Yes I have read the T&C and to the best of my knowledge, Yes I am in compliance with them.

I requested that UB send me a letter if I am not in compliance, and they have not done so.

On the other hand, on the phone (and not in writing) they were trying to get me to reduce the balance in my savings account.

phormium

It's kind of an odd thing for them to do but given the general UB staff knowledge about Offset it is slightly believeable but only in so far as someone working from old paperwork or running off on their own bat or not checking with HO could be responsible.

Initially when these mortgages were launched as Current Account Mortgage (CAM) you could could not hold more in the facility account than was owing or it would trigger a redemption of the mortgage. This was changed at some stage prior to relaunch as Offset if memory serves me correctly, it was definitely changed but I'm just not sure whether it was before or after rebranding of it, there was also another change to the T&Cs relating to the repayments. There used to 'standard' and 'planned' repayments which affected the way the interest savings were applied but that was changed as well, a minor change really.

So it's very surprising that they should be ringing you up as realistically what difference is it going to make to them if you remove some cash to bring it below the mortgage amount, it doesn't get rid of either the mortgage or the current account for them so not much of a result! If I were you I'd escalate that to the Offset team in HO just for the craic as I'd want to pin them down as to what 'rule' they think you are breaking.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120293717#Comment_120293717

Well if that is the case then the ball is in their court to do something about it.....

But I have to say, I don't see why you'd want to have savings exceeding your total debt with a bank that is about to exit the market. There is always the possibility that you could find it difficult to recover those funds at a later stage.

aoraki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120294817#Comment_120294817

If that's the case Jim they are going against their own recent communications regarding accounts (both savings and current) that are used to offset against these mortgages. They have told Offset mortgage holders that they don't need to take any action at the moment about closing these accounts as they won't have an update on the Offset Mortgage situation until the middle of the year.

Uatstau

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120294817#Comment_120294817

That is a very good point, and it had occurred to me. I am in the process of moving the excess savings elsewhere and intend to leave one euro more in the savings account than in the mortgage account. The reason for this is to give me the option of a cheaper loan in the future, should I need it, as I can 'borrow' from the savings account and pay interest at mortgage rates.

However, I am worried about the status of these tied accounts in the future when UB will have no physical presence here and will have closed all other accounts (apart from the 5000 or so Offsert mortgage accounts still on their books, that seem to be going nowhere.) According to the FAQ on their website "please note there is no action for you to take on your Offset Mortgage and linked accounts if they are still meeting your needs".

You commented previously (https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120125505#Comment_120125505 ) "Ulster Bank is being wound down and that means that it will go into liquidation at some point and anything that remains will be come part of that process. That means the debt will crystallise and the liquidator will be free to deal with them as he sees fit." How will this actually develop? Is there a worst-case scenario whereby they could appropriate my savings because they are 'in liquidation', yet my mortgage debt has been sold to another bank and I'm still liable for the debt?

Having accounts with a bank in financial limbo is perhaps not a smart move, yet we have been given no advice beyond "please note there is no action for you to take".

JTMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120295181#Comment_120295181

I would guess that the liquidation of Ulster Bank Republic of Ireland is many many years away. I would also guess that Offset mortgages and savings accounts will all be long dealt with before the liquidation starts.

In the highly unlikely event that Ulster Bank Republic of Ireland enters liquidation before this happens then the first 100,000 EUR that you have in deposits is protected by the Irish Deposit Guarantee Scheme.

When Anglo went into liquidation, deposits that were not transferred to AIB, were compensated by the Irish Deposit Guarantee Scheme but those who had more than 100k lost anything above 100k.

That said, anything above 100k might be nettable by the liquidator against debt held.

The liquidator should sell your debt to the highest bidder but who would buy a debt that is linked to savings accounts? Perhaps the liquidator might offer a massive discount for the mortgage holder to 'purchase' their own debt. i.e. effectively a write off for a small payment.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120295181#Comment_120295181

Once the bank's license has been withdrawn they will not longer be in a position offer you any further facilities and that most likely will be completed before the end of the year based on their current time lines.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120295313#Comment_120295313

They cant just stop and expect the mortgage holder to continue paying the mortgage so unless they want to write off all of the debt owed to them which I cant see happening either. Its like the mortgage holder saying I am not paying any more on my mortgage but I am keeping the house. It just cant work.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129628#Comment_120129628

Not really capable of being effected where the institution has obligations entertained with the asset. This is more akin to the run off of an insurance business. ICI became Icarom which took 27 years of administration. Offset mortgage customers who are in breach might be easier to clear out rather than those who have not breached. Handing back the banking licence will prohibit the taking of deposits but this may not be permitted if its purpose is to frustrate a customer contract. Eventually the rump might be assumed into NatWest Bank (as happened with BOSI/Halifax Ireland business into Lloyds).

phormium

UB will have to sort the offsets at some stage, how I don't know but a solution will have to be found unless they have a means of maintaining them from afar. Even if I wanted to switch my mortgage myself to another lender I would not get a mortgage at this stage from anyone due to lack of income etc, I'm not the only one in that boat so it's not exactly possible to do a diy leave them ourselves for everyone, fine for the current account bit.

I think had they started earlier on this and offered a discount to reflect loss of offsetting plus an attractive fixed rate I'd imagine you would have very small numbers not agreeing to transferring out of offset to standard mortgage which could then have been sold on easier. The mortgages are not new issues at this stage so most are a good way into the term and divided out around the country each branch could have contacted their own. You'd have some playing hardball but I'm sure they have enough capable staff to strike a deal.

darkhorse49

A colleague of mine visited with Ulster bank recently. He asked was there an update with regarding the offset mortgage. The staff member he spoke to also has an offset mortgage and he was told that talks are underway with AIB and it looks like they are going to take them. Anyone else here anything about this?

aoraki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120324753#Comment_120324753

Nope, haven't heard anything like this. AIB could well end up being the destination but I'm going to disregard any rumours or speculation on this until I get a letter from Ulster Bank telling me what's happening.

phormium

Spoke to an UB staff member Saturday who also has an offset, zero information as to what is happening them from their side, felt they would keep them on and manage them from a residual bank of some sort. I can't see how that would work though as you'd also have to keep the fully functioning current account system going too with direct debits/debit cards etc, not as simple as just overseeing a mortgage account.

Seurat

I have moved all my standing orders and direct debits to a different account. I lodge the monthly mortgage payment every month to the current account and hold roughly €25k savings there (€110k owed on mortgage) I am willing to hit the eject button on those savings if needed but the govt guarantee me upto €100k so I figure wait until I get a letter in Summer and avail of the interest reduction now.

What could possibly go wrong???

Cal07

Hi, I'm only catching up the chat trail now.

I've been trying to get an update on my off-set tracker mortgage from UB contacts but no one seems to have any clarity on what is happening with them currently. Based on all the recent correspondence I've got from UB I've contacted them, the CCPC and Central Bank to get clarity on my rights as a consumer given UB intention to leave the market. My concerns as some of you have called out before....

1. Got a new T&C's booklet from UB regarding my Mortgage and Current Accounts with UB..... UB 'claim' there are no real changes to our T&C's but I'd disagree with this...
2. They call out that I won't have access/ability to make any lodgment or withdrawal form my current account once all the branches are closed in late April. I asked CCPC and Central Bank if above is not a breach of my original facility i.e. no ability to make lodgements on the account. Whilst they don't get involved in the particulars they claim I've no choice but to accept these terms.
3. I asked Central Bank if my current account and saving account are covered under the deposit scheme and assured all okay with this to value of €100,000.
4. I'm getting letter after letter and emails from all utility and other providers asking me to update my bank account details with UB exiting. I've been advising them that my account is staying active which they done seem to accept. I pay the property tax by DD and Revenue said that as far as they are aware no UB DD's/Standing Orders will be available/active later in 2023.

Has anyone got any further update on our entitlements?

Are we expected to open 'current account' with another institution to avail of conventional banking facilities?

Cheers.

phormium

There is no update, other service providers wouldn't even know or understand about the offsets unless the person themselves had one, in the overall scheme of UB closing it is a small number of customers, the direct debits etc will continue to work until UB sort it out but you could see why the service providers assume that as UB are closing that any customer who hasn't made alternative arrangements is in the wrong.

Being able to lodge I don't know that I can get too excited about that, I can't remember when I last lodged something physically over the counter to my current account. I have opened another account elsewhere as I'd prefer not to have to do anything last minute but I still maintain my 2 existing offset accounts and use them as well.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120388168#Comment_120388168

The bank is ceasing business at some point in the next few months it will loose/give back its banking license and at that point it will not longer be able or allowed to offer you banking services. The only point that is unclear at present is what will happen to the off-set mortgages. It is in your own best interests to make other arrangement for your banking services as soon as you can. Remember that beyond one of the remaining banks providing you with a basic bank account, there is no obligation on the banks to do business with you, so it is best to make sure you have this sorted out as soon as you can.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120388586#Comment_120388586

Jim they cannot just do that, these offset accounts are saving people 10s of 1000s on the very high interest rates that are being paid on the mortgage and all anyone has to do is look at the very hefty fines the banks incurred recently with regards to blagging people off their trackers. Anyone reading this don't do anything don't close your offset accounts or do anything with your account as the account along with the mortgage is a package that UB has to stand over. I reckon they will have to pay every individual offset account holder a very high premium to get them to forego their offset mortgage facility account and then they may be able to shift the mortgages as in its current offering I cant see any bank touching this product with a barge pole. Also nothing like a few banks hitting the skids like we have seen recently to focus the bankers minds. The only way they can cease to give their current offset mortgage holders support is if they write off the mortgage 100% and that is AOK with me.

Wanderingmind

I'm not sure if this is related but does anyone have any idea what or when Ulster Bank will do something with unsustainable mortgages in arrears?

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120388748#Comment_120388748

Not sure but I reckon they will be sold to Vultures at a big discount

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120388628#Comment_120388628

As I pointed out the situation regarding the offset mortgages is unclear and I was referring to the other banking services the OP needs.

aoraki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120388628#Comment_120388628

I'd agree with this - do not willingly give up your offset mortgage or the offsetting accounts linked to the mortgage (especially considering that Ulster Bank themselves have told people that there is no need to take any action at this stage). Nobody was forcing Ulster Bank to exit the Irish market, this is entirely their own decision. It is wholly incumbent on Ulster bank to provide for a solution for these mortgages and the T&Cs that go along with them. Whether that be selling them to another financial institution, or some other solution. But whatever that is, Ulster Bank needs to come up with it.

And they won't be able to "hand back their banking licence" or liquidate until they do that.