UEFA Euro 2024: Mod Note Added 2/7/24

jacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122175574#Comment_122175574

No less than 4 players from "world beaters" Crystal Palace, but I kind of get the feeling that maybe only 1 of them will make the final 26.

Necro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122176540#Comment_122176540

Yeah Henderson and Wharton likely won't make it. Eze has a chance though might be beaten out by Grealish or Bowen and I think Guehi will be on the plane.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122176844#Comment_122176844

Eze and Bowen got in ahead of Grealish which I am surprised by. It's riskier than I expected from Southgate.

Sadly for everyone else Maguire is dropped too.

ctrl-alt-delete

As a Blackburn fan I am delighted for Wharton, he is class.

Dick phelan

England are stacked in midfield and attack. Defense and GK are still an issue though, especially at LB. Think the 3 favorites for me are France, England, and Portugal in that order. Wouldn't be surprised if Germany, Spain or Netherlands won it either though.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122227977#Comment_122227977

I'm less sure about their midfield… beyond Rice, the other midfield options for the 2 sitters are very young and inexperienced in Mainoo and Wharton. Could maybe play Trent or Gallagher there, but the defensive side of that role isn't natural for either of them.

eagle eye

I don't think Guéhi should be there ahead of Branthwaite or Maguire.

Its like the last friendly didn't matter, Grealish was great, involved in two goals and never made a mistake. Guéhi had a poor night.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122228567#Comment_122228567

And the last friendly shouldn't matter based on the evidence of the last 12 months really.

Maguire is not fit.

In Guehi you're getting a better, more reliable passer of the ball. Defensively there's not much between him and Branthwaite other than Branthwaite wins more aerial duels. Its what do you want. Someone better with ball at feet or someone who can attack in the air better, because the rest is all a bit samey (stats wise)

Grealish has not had a good season. Hes not played enough and he's in a a position that's pretty stacked. Plus in Gordon they have that fall over at a whisper player

Only player who I think can really feel a bit hard done by is solanke. Never been in conversation, but toney has been pretty poor excepting his first few games back

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122228660#Comment_122228660

I'm with you on Solanke. Grealish waa starting until he got injured and then didn't get much time after. He was basically in a three way battle for minutes on the pitch with Doku and Alvarez. That should not be held against him. And it's not Gordon I'm saying should be left out, it's Bowen. They've brought one left sided player and three for the right. How many minutes do you see Bowen getting with Saka and Palmer there?

As for Guéhi, you've got Konsa, Gomez Stones and Dunk who are all right footed and can play centre-back. . There is no left footed central defender.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122228952#Comment_122228952

Eze can play on the left. Grealish only missed a few games with injury but was deemed to not be up to standard by his manager. He was back in the starting line up straight after his injury

He picked himself up a suspension then too.

Bowen is there on merit. He has pltayed up front too. Has 22 goal involvements and is in excellent form generally

Grealish has done nothing to deserve being in the squad.

As for the footedness of the players. O don't think southgate cares given Maguire would've been there if fit, he cares about how they protect the ball though and he has selected on that baais

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122228952#Comment_122228952

Eze, Fodan and Gordon will all be their left sided options, so they’ve plenty of depth there without Graelish.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122229554#Comment_122229554

So two players who never play on the right. I know Eze has experience in the positiin but he's not in the England squad because he played there a couple of years ago. Pep considers Foden a central midfielder, he grew up playing on the left side.

This is Southgate though, I forgot that. I was asked who'd beat England and my immediate answer was Southgate.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122229712#Comment_122229712

?
I said left… Eze, Gordon and Foden are their three left sided options, which is where Graelish would’ve also been. Foden usefully can also play AM and RW too, but is prob most likely to start left with Bellingham AM Kane ST and Saka RW.

With Palmer and Bowen as depth for Saka, they’re stacked in all those attacking support positions. No need for Graelish.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122229719#Comment_122229719

I mixed up my left and right in that post. Foden grew up playing on the right but he's been playing in central midfield for his club. It's a couple of years since Eze played on the left, it's not why he's in the England squad he's there because of what he's shown since moving inside. He most likely wouldn't be in the squad if he'd remained on the left.

How many times have you seen Foden play on the left? I can't remember ever seeing it.

Saying the last friendly shouldn't matter is ridiculous. Maybe it's not that important but if somebody excels on the night it has to be a serious consideration. Grealish came on with a half hour left and for me he was a serious contender for man of the match, he was exceptional.

This is clearly a case of bringing square pegs for round holes.

Also suggesting that Bowen should be there even though Saka and Palmer are in the squad and suggesting it's because he can play up front, when you've got three strikers is stretching things. He's a really good player but there isn't any room for him to get time on the pitch. Foden can also play there, it's stupid to bring Bowen. I understand people look at whose been the best over the season but there's two other things that come into selecting a squad and they are bringing experience and players that fit roles.

Anyway I've enough said on the matter.

Southgate will stop England winning the tournament, he's already started with the squad he's picked.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122229901#Comment_122229901

Foden's played 12 games on the left for City this season, and played 23 games on the left for City last season. He's played significantly more on the left throughout his career than the right - this season is actually his first ever with a few more games on the right than the left.

And since Glasner has come in and Palace's form has exploded, Eze has played predominantly on the left, either as a LWF or a LAM. Olise right, Eze left, and Mateta centre. Eze scored two from there just 2 weeks ago in their last game of the season. Here's the teamsheet for that game.

As for the last time Foden played on the left - it was also about 2 weeks ago, in City's match against Spurs.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122230188#Comment_122230188

I get City fans are upset Grealish got dropped but he was offering nothing unique and by not bringing him they miss nothing. Making up incorrect narratives and claims to try and "prove" otherwise doesn't help at all.

randd1

GK Pickford

RB Trippier, CB Stones, CB Konsa, LB Walker

CM Rice, CM Eze, AM Bellingham

RF Saka, CF Kane, LF Foden

I know Walker isn't a left sided player, but he's still a quality full back and has the serious pace to shore up that side. Outside of that, that's a serious side to be facing. Gordon, Palmer, Mainoo, Watkins, Gallagher, serious subs. Keep it tight and compact so as not to expose the defence and it's very possible the (ever increasing) years of hurt might actually end.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122230188#Comment_122230188

This is Fodens season heat map. As you can see he spends very little time in the left.

jacool

This was a quote from @Rebel I've slightly updated

Interesting that Matheus Nunes Grealish has been dropped from the Portuguese English squad. That Man City move has been a real disaster for him.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122230603#Comment_122230603

You literally just quoted my post saying this is his first ever season spending more time on the right than the left, so obviously a heat map of this season will show him being more on the right than the left. That's got naught to do with what you said though, which was that he's never been left sided - which is nonsense.

Here's the season heat map from the season before, from the same website, when he played 23 matches on the left (22/23):

Here's the season heat map from the year before that (21/22);

And here's the season heat map from the year before that (20/21);

He's got absolutely tonnes of experience playing as a left sided attacker, and it's a totally valid call to put him there for England.

Pauliedragon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122230220#Comment_122230220

I always found it odd that some fans hate players being called up for internationals in case of injury/burnout then get offended when they aren't picked. I know Summer tournaments are different but it happens during the season too.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122229901#Comment_122229901

Picking grealish wouldn't have given them a better chance. He's played so few minutes and he's actually one of the least versatile of all of their attacking options.

They'd be praying that refs buy his falling over and that's about it.

Nothing he has done in the last 12 months warrants selection.

Southgate should be applauded for that. Only toney raises an eyebrow in the why are they there. He's something different I guess, but that different has either not kicked a ball or been crap for 12 months.

Shaw too, but it was which of the crocked left backs so you pick. There's an argument to be made that Tyreek Mitchell or alfi doughty should be there instead. They've been the 2 most consistent English left backs. Hell dan burn might feel peeved too

I don't see how shaw with the less than 9 games worth of minutes deserves to be on the plane. If he were the outstanding player in that position yeah, maybe, but he's another one who hasn't been that good when actually available

Weepsie

Hes also a vastly superior player to grealish

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122230724#Comment_122230724

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122230724#Comment_122230724

So you are saying players should be brought based on how they played the season before last or where they played the season before last?

pjohnson

I'll never understand some folks that insist on trying to dig up out of a hole they put themselves in.

ShamoBuc

On form, there was no chance Grealish would be brought, he's simply not good enough.

In any position.

It's literally that simple.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122231299#Comment_122231299

So are you now making a completely different argument than you previously made, while completely ignoring the fact that you were wrong in what you were saying? Awesome - that follows the trend of these conversations alright.

If the person we were talking about wasn't Player Of The Year Phil Foden, who has for several years been world class on the left, in the middle, and on the right, I might agree with you. But it is Phil Foden (who still has 9 goal contributions from his 12 games on the left this season), so yeah, I think it's a pretty good idea to bring him as a serious option on the left to compliment Saka on the right, Kane up front, and Bellingham at AMC.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122231585#Comment_122231585

I'm not making a different argument. Foden was rarely on the left side of the pitch last season. I was talking about last season.

Where did you get the stats about his goal contributions from the left? And how far left? Was it on the outside or is a couple of yards from the penalty spot included?

Phil Foden grew up playing on the right and has moved central under Guardiola. He's another option for the right side which makes Bowen a stupid pick.

And Grealish was exceptional the other night, he did enough in 30 minutes to be in that squad.

And a guy that didn't even get a call up would be a serious consideration for me, that's Ademola Lookman whose been exceptional for Atalanta. Why am I saying he should have been considered? It's because he showed in the Europa league final that he's clutch when it matters most, that's something England have been lacking for a long time.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122232136#Comment_122232136

Well considering lookman plays for Nigeria that would be one hell of a pick.

Foden has played tonnes of games on the left for city. This is the first season he has predominantly played elsewhere.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122232143#Comment_122232143

I didn't know he signed up with Nigeria. He's English born and bred.

You can ignore that about Lookman Rebel. 😂

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122232136#Comment_122232136

Ah you clearly weren't only talking about last season (as evidenced by; "How many times have you seen Foden play on the left? I can't remember ever seeing it."). Sure you literally talked about nothing but Foden playing on the right underage and then centre - ignoring that he has primarily played on the left for 3 of his 4 regular starting senior seasons, with 3 seasons of heat maps showing it's been the position he's played most under Guardiola. And when he played on the left he played in exactly the same position Grealish plays on the left.

(and if you were only talking about last season, I would say it's very silly to ignore 3 years - along with 12 matches this season - of terrific performances in a position that would allow one of England's strongest players to fit nicely onto the pitch without losing any of Kane, Saka, or Bellingham)

Bowen's had a better season than Grealish. And given that Foden will be starting on the left, Bowen's a great option to come on for Saka on the right. Grealish's competition was Foden, Eze, and Gordon, who have all just had better seasons.

Sure look, I think I've made the point that England have not in fact "only brought one left sided player" pretty clearly and backed it up, so i'd say I'll leave it there rather than going into another pointless spiral of nitpicking and goalpost-moving.

Weepsie

Foden could equally play behind Kane with Bellingham in a midfield 3. They have plenty of combinations available to them

End of the day, grealish is the least versatile choice there other than maybe Gordon, but Gordon is there on merit.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122232178#Comment_122232178

Absolutely - Bellingham, Foden, and Palmer will all be options across the attacking 3 support spots, with Gordon & Eze, and Saka & Bowen more specialist wider guys left and right respectively. Really stacked and nicely balanced attacking options in fairness. Feel that bit of a lack of experience in whoever they pick beside Rice is their only real weakness (and keeper I guess, but Pickford or Ramsdale aren't awful either).

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122232178#Comment_122232178

I would have Grealish ahead of Gordon, all day long.

If Grealish was in the squad, he would see more game time than some of those back up MFs

A mistake to leave him out

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122232681#Comment_122232681

Grealish’s biggest issue, as well as poor form, is that he doesn’t score enough goals. 3 in the league this season. And even last season - his best for City - only 5. The season before that was 3 again.

By contrast, this season Eze has 11, Gordon has 11, and Foden has 19. And on the other side, Saka has 16, Bowen has 16, and Palmer has 22.

Jack’s very much the odd man out in that respect.

eagle eye

Jack Grealish is playing under strict instructions at City. We haven't seen the Villa player who was in double digits between goals and assists over his last three seasons there. We got to see the Villa player the other night.

And if we are saying that everybody being picked is because of their form then how the hell was Toney selected?

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122233172#Comment_122233172

So you want him picked based on what he was doing over 3 years ago, and even then he was not as productive as you're trying to make out.

The problem with Jack greelish "the villa player" is that he is and always was a bit selfish. Pep had him out of them team because he wasn't working hard enough and he wasn't listening to instructions. That's not someone you take to a tournament

You've tried making a different argument to why he should be included every time your original point was easily discounted.

He doesn't deserve to be in the team. Neither does toney on form, other than toney is the only other physical big centre forward if they do want that sort of presence, but he's 3rd choice.

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122232982#Comment_122232982

How many goals in total will the players you listed score in total at the Euros?

I wouldn't be shocked if we could end up counting them on one hand.

For me Grealish, has fallen out of favour with Pep thus season. We seen it with others before who came back into the fold.

Grealish’s experience, I'd see him holding the ball up and winning a lot of crucial frees to build chances for Kane etc. I don't see Wharton getting any game time. There is enough cover to have the likes of Grealish in ahead of him.

Anyway, it's all just opinions.

If I was a manager with an option of buying one of Gordon, Palmer or Grealish, I'd go with Grealish all day long

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122233339#Comment_122233339

No I said he should be picked based on what he showed the other night. Half an hour and a genuine contender for man of the match.

Did you see the game last night. Anthony Gordon was awful, it's not Newcastle, he's playing a different game for England than what he's used to and he has no experience playing a more defined role, Grealish has that.

Bowen didn't even get a game, Palmer started on the right, Saka came on. Foden played behind Kane.

ShamoBuc

Pick a player based on half an hour - thankfully, managers tend not to do that, for very good reason.

Grealish isn't good enough.

Pep knows it - barely played him - and Southgate too.

505_

Are there any good old fashioned wall charts for the tournament in any of the papers this weekend?

~Rebel~

putting too much stock in ‘must not get injured’ friendlies before a tournament is never a great idea… like preseason, they’re training exercises, just giving lads some minutes each. Palmer’s the only attacker to start both friendly games, and that was in two different positions. Bowen played the full 90 in the first game, so was given the second night off.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122234010#Comment_122234010

Not sure but I saw there is "big" controversy over the sticker albums this year with UEFA selling the rights to Topps but Panini have the rights to the 4/5 top teams.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/article/2024/jun/08/fans-call-foul-over-englands-euro-2024-sticker-album-debacle

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122233975#Comment_122233975

You moved the goalposts about 3 times since then when your points where pretty well countered

You're willing to base selection and merit of selection on 2 meaningless friendlies but will ignore a seasons worth of data. That's the crux of it

McGrath5

Looking how easily Iceland played through England last night it should temper expectation's, something like 12 or 13 new players in this squad vs the World Cup 18 months back.
Southgate will go back to parking the bus and nick a goal or 2 through set pieces.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122234220#Comment_122234220

Foden and Bellingham are surely good enough that you can mostly park the bus but still let them be themselves. It's essentially what France do.

Southgate won't though, he will stifle them.

citytillidie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122234010#Comment_122234010

Irish Star in the North has one so I would assume it should have one with you

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122234107#Comment_122234107

I was told I was moving the goalposts when I used the 23/24 flow chart to show Foden isn't playing on the left. Now you are telling me I'm moving the goalposts because I'm ignoring a season of data? What data?

Have you nothing to say about the performances last night or my contention that Gordon can't fit in playing where Southgate wants him to?

Did you even watch the match, if not then obviously you are only looking at stats and it's a waste of time even talking to you about things.

Stats can be helpful but watching football tells you a lot more.

NITRO95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122234344#Comment_122234344

You must be easily impressed if you think 30 mins in a meaningless end of season international friendly against Bosnia, after the self admitted worst season of his career, is enough to justify selection for the Euros.

Grealish by most accounts I've seen has been honest enough to say he's been bad this season so to see someone up in arms that 4 of the form forward players in the PL have been selected ahead of him is rather odd. Grealish if he went likely wasn't getting any game time. This will either be the kick up the arse he needs to motivate himself or its the end of his international career because he can't match the output of other viable options.

breezy1985

Jesus Christ lads Grealish isn't going. Just move on.