UEFA Euro 2024: Mod Note Added 2/7/24

cmac2009

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349896#Comment_122349896

It's only going to get worse as they continue to expand competitions.

I suspect I might just be tuning in for the knock out stages going forward, not that that gives any guarantee of a decent game as we have seen.

noodler

Im glad the euros was expanded anyway.

The more interesting teams and games have not been the ones involving the usual heavyweights

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122350136#Comment_122350136

if anything this tournament has been a great advertisement to expand. Many of the supposed big teams have been awful to watch while most of the bright sparks have come from the fringe teams. And bringing it to 32 gives the immediate drama of things turning in an instant on the last day of the group stage.

topmanamillion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122350209#Comment_122350209

Why not just have all 55 teams at it? 32 is pretty much there anyway, minus a few statelets, principalities and undoubtedly still us.

32 teams would be bananas so I fully expect UEFA to do it. It would be hard to justify maintaining the current qualifying system when 60% of the teams are going to qualify.

Currently there's 10 groups so top 3 would qualify automatically or 3/5 in some groups and 3/6 in others. There'd probably be a convoluted play off system to decide the last 2 spots involving some fairly poor outfits.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122350528#Comment_122350528

they probably should change the current system… there’s too much football in players legs as it is.

As a tournament, 32 makes more sense than 24. The best is 16, followed by 32, followed by 24… 24 is the worst of both worlds.

And qualification could just be through the nations league, scrap the current system and use those extra international breaks as actual breaks in the league for players to recover.

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122350138#Comment_122350138

Or alternatively the heavyweights are now playing a drab style of play to conserve energy as there are more games involved in the tournament.

Traditionally to win the Euros, you played 6 games in about 23 days. Now that is is expanded to 7 games in 30 days, a bit more game management is required and so they have decided that they can't play an energetic style and this is their solution. That extra round seems to be drag as you are as good as guaranteed to progress with 1 win, thus reducing the need to win more than 1 game in the group stages and then come up against a lower team who will look to defend and stifle against you in the next round.

For example gone are the days of a Spain & France winning 3 games between them in the opening 2 games of the group stages but still needing another win to avoid playing each other straight away in the 1/4 final.

Aside from Spain, I haven't seen much rotation, and Spain look the best team in the tournament so far to me.

topmanamillion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122350547#Comment_122350547

Qualification is a massive cash cow for UEFA, absolutely no chance they scrap it.

rob316

The lack of quality centre forwards in the game has been very apparent to me in this tournament.

Dick phelan

Ye how many strikers of real quality still exist in world football. Netherlands, France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Belgium haven't one great striker between them. There best attacking players are wingers. In the 2006 WC for example we had, Rooney, Owen Henry, Trezeguet, Crespo, Tevez, Drogba, Van Persie, Van Nistelrooy, Totti, Del Piero, Inzaghi, Adriano, Ronaldo, Shevchenko, Raul, Torres and David Villa.

Guys like Depay, Havartz, Scamacca wouldn't get near the starting 11 at the 2006 WC and probably wouldn't even be in the squad.

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122350856#Comment_122350856

How many top clubs play with a direct old school number 9? Football has changed in the last 20 years. Majority of clubs want interchangeable forwards now, not just one who stays up front and isn't involved unless he is taking a shot. Look at what Ronaldo is offering now for example. Portugal are playing with 9 outfielders as a result when most teams have 10.

One other example is that Endrick who played up front for Brazil last night. He made 1 accurate pass in 90 minutes last night that wasn't from kick off. That's not good enough. One thing that is actually relevant in that game too is that Uruguay have 37 year old Luis Suarez in their squad. He doesn't insist on starting every game and have all the free kicks, taking every shot etc. he knows his physical limitations and has a sub/squad role. He isn't. Holding Uruguay back, as they use mobile energetic forwards involved in pressing and the build up and as a result, Uruguay are in the semi finals while Brazil are knocked out.

Ronaldo & Kane especially could take note, but also Mbappe.

Dick phelan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122350929#Comment_122350929

It's true that football has changed and there's still some great attacking players, but I do think it's having a negative impact on the quality of this tournament.

noodler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122350757#Comment_122350757

Well the expanded euros brings 1 extra game.

The lads who are through after two group games, don't even have to get a result in group game 3.

If they've won't their group they get a 3rd place team anyway.

I dunno about any of that. I know I got a lot more joy watching Czechia, Turkey, Austria, Switzerland, Georgia and Albania.

Fair few of those probably don't qualify in an unexpended euros.

Im all for 32 teams, 8 groups, 2 from each group and no more 3rd place stuff.

Same number of games

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122351218#Comment_122351218

Yeah those teams were more exciting alright, and with the exception of Spain who have tried to attack in fairness. But those teams probably know that their time in the tournament is limited and have to go on the front foot and hope to score, combined with the 'bigger' nation having an off day. Thats their only route to success really.

eagle eye

Could you imagine England in Montella's system? I think they'd destroy teams.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349896#Comment_122349896

I think it is happening in most sports, managers more aware of the value of possession and covering the danger areas.

A lot of the group games were a bit open (probably because of less quality), but the longer it has gone on it has become a slog.

CalamariFritti

No one else will give a sh1t or be sympathetic for crappy tactics chess football only the supporters of that very team and even them only if successful. If this is the new normal why would anyone spend thousands to go to a Euro match?

I know league football is different but fair play to Klopp for setting out right from the start that he sees the team as entertainers, too.

NIMAN

Football as entertainment?

That idea has died in 99.9% of coaches in world football.

Many things have made this tournament a relatively poor one. Mostly the tactics. Most managers now play for nil nil at half time. Then play to have not conceded by 60th minute, then 75th. Then 90th. A maybe sneak a goal.

The dearth of shots on target is another one. So many games now have no shots on target for long periods. It's a midfield mess of possession, needless passing etc. Nearly every team now gets out to the wings, but very few crosses into the box, it's just recycled and ends up back at halfway line, rinse and repeat. And for this reason, that's why the smaller nations are competing, because it's not difficult to organise a 10 man defence to stifle this style of football.

And also the lack of forwards is a huge thing. They are a dying breed because forward players now have to fit the above system, and aren't allowed just to be goal scorers any more. Look at the likes of Depay, Thuram, Havertz, Sesko etc. All poor goal scorers.

And finally, there was so little jeopardy in the group stages. Only 2 should have progressed.

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122352496#Comment_122352496

If you want Entertainment, go to the pictures! (E Dunphy?)

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122352620#Comment_122352620

The same man who complained about Charlon's style of play.

theoneeyedman

No, I'm not disagreeing with you at all.

Most players playing top level in Western Europe have come through academy systems. They are coached to the nth degree. It is producing ubitucous players, very similar in skill and abilities. Often it's only their determination, mentality and a bit of luck thay decides where they play, be it the EPL, League Two, full back or centre mid. The days of the tricky winger is gone (most pros can do it to an extent the big CB who can head away corners the same, as is the target man up top or the ice cool finisher. Unless your mobile, injury free, and have a sharp touch you're goosed.

Players who don't conform are weeded out, and clubs don't take a chance on the likes of a Messi anymore.

eagle eye

Arsenal, Liverpool and Aston Villa all play entertaining football most of the time. Atalanta and Bayer Leverkusen play entertaining football. Real Madrid and Borussia Dortmund play entertaining football most of the time.

That's second, third and fourth in the Premier league and the finalist of the Champions league and Europa league.

International football in Europe is awful most of the time though. I never watch qualifiers and I think I'm finished with the Euros for the future.

The Copa America has been entertaining. Uruguay, Brazil, Ecuador, United States and Colombia all have played attractive football.

CalamariFritti

Is that true? I havent watched Copa America, not a minute, but a friend of mine has and he told me only yesterday that what he watched was brutal. Worse than the Euros only with more fouls and diving and rolling around.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349312#Comment_122349312

What’s the underlying data for this? I’ve only seen Rice pass the ball sideways and back so far.

Ferris_Bueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353371#Comment_122353371

The WC 2022, Euro 2021 and WC 2018 were very entertaining tournaments, this is the first poor one we've had in a while. Hard to judge euro 2016 objectively as I Ireland were there and I was over at it, but my memory is the games weren't majorly exciting.

This has been a poor tournament overall, the worst in a good while probably, but international tournament football will always be my favourite. The club game just has too much money in it.

citytillidie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122350528#Comment_122350528

They are changing the qualification for the world cup to 12 groups of either 4 or 5 teams, but that is more to do with adding in a Quarter-final stage now in the Nations League

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353960#Comment_122353960

The change in qualification for WC 2026 is to do with the expansion to 48 teams and the increase in the number of places for UEFA to 16 i.e. 12 group winners and 4 play off winners (12 runner ups and next 4 best from NL). The WC qualifying structure isn't being modified because of tweaks to the NL.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353532#Comment_122353532

Its everything. Shooting, passing, possession, attacking, defending, goalkeeping.

It's a weighted system, if you are a defender and score a goal or provide an assist you'll get much bigger points than a midfielder who'll get more than a forward and the same applies to making a tackle where a forward gets more points than a midfielder and defender. It's not just that simple, the position on the field of actions will affect the points as well. A forward making a tackle in the defensive area will get more points than one who makes a tackle in his teams forward area. .

Rice is fourth in tackles and also in balls recovered.

BRYAN Is Ainm Dom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353371#Comment_122353371

Would you go away with your Copa America comment of being entertaining! Have you watched any of it??? Has been brutal and worse than euros.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122354423#Comment_122354423

For sure… the game actually between two of the mentioned teams - Brazil V Uruguay - was as bad or worse than anything we've seen at the Euros. Been a lot of really poor games so far both in terms of standard, and tactics used.

Ottoman_1000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353371#Comment_122353371

The Copa has been absolutely rubbish this summer too. Its getting panned by the American / South American press, much like the Euros back home. Due to my current time zone, I've watch more of the Copa than the Euros and its been awful, poor football played on some even worse pitches in some instances.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122354423#Comment_122354423

I've watched nearly every game. I named the sides that have played good football. I don't see you making comments about any of them in particular.

You might not I didn't put Argentina in there.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122354322#Comment_122354322

grand. Maybe it’s me, but I can’t see what Rice has done to be so high. The England midfield is an abyss where creativity goes to die.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122354526#Comment_122354526

The football hasn't been defensive crap. The teams are trying to find the net. The quality of some of the teams is very poor but the football is still a lot more entertaining than the Euros.

Off the top of my head Ecuador Venezuela, all of Uruguay's games, all the Mexico games, all the Colombia games, the Paraguay games.

Lots of attacking football in all the above.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122354651#Comment_122354651

That's not on the midfielders though. It's the crap system they are playing in where they are dropping very deep to protect the defense and then are isolated from the attacking players. This is why England can't score goals. Like the goals that have kept England in it are two individual attempts by world class players.

He has played Trippier on the left every game when it's clear it's a disaster. He turns inside because he has absolutely no left foot and passes backwards at least 80% of the time. The midfield is forced backwards as a result of this.

citytillidie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122354169#Comment_122354169

Europe only has 3 extra spaces so not much of a difference, they have added extra games to the NL with Quarter-Finals in League A and Promotion and Relegation play-offs in between Leagues A and B, and Leagues B and C. These games will be played in March with the Semi-Final/Final in June 2025. This effects those teams in the World Cup as if you are playing in those games you will not be playing World Cup qualifying in March like other teams will. UEFA will have to work the groups for World Cup qualifying so the groups of 5 teams do not have too many of those teams in one group.

Groups of 5 will start WC Qualification in March 2025 excluding teams in NL Quarter-Finals and Play-offs, Groups of 4 will start WC Qualification in September 2025

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122355678#Comment_122355678

Personally, i think the restructure is to get nice numbers for the WC play offs and those qualifying. Suits the bigger teams. I don't see the relevance of the NL in the restructre. They're not totally restructuring qualifiers for the NL imo.

You're of a different opinion. Irrelevant what the rationale is. Not worth arguing over.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122354744#Comment_122354744

I know it’s a system problem. It just mystifies that Rice’s numbers can be so high

ronjo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356081#Comment_122356081

He explained it to you…. 4th in tackles and 4th in ball recoveries

ronjo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122354526#Comment_122354526

Am I right in saying the Copa was set up as 2 distinct halves so Argentina couldnt play either Brazil or Uruguay before the final. Colombia too who are 3rd in qualifiying now for world cup

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122357623#Comment_122357623

Ok, I’m mystified how that places him 4th at the Euros.

Is that what makes a world class midfielder now? Winning the ball?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122357698#Comment_122357698

Gattuso was a world class midfielder for exactly that reason.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122357698#Comment_122357698

I dont think anyone in this conversation has said Rice is world class. His job at this tournament is to win the ball and protect the back 4/5. He's doing that.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122354651#Comment_122354651

It's purely statistical, there's no eye test. I think for most here Rodri has been the outstanding player in this Euros so far. Saliba has been immense for France along with Theo Hernandez, Malen for me has been the best Dutch player. Rice probably is the best English player, I can't think of anybody who's performed well for them.

Spain have been head and shoulders above everybody else for me. Laporte, Cucurella, Ruiz, Pedri, Williams and Yamal have all been excellent. I feel so sorry for Pedri.

I'm putting up the opta stats for opinions because there's a growing number of people suggesting it should be used to decide whose player of the game and tournament.

ShamoBuc

Haven't looked at stats or anything but the midfielder of the tournament for me has been Xhaka - he made that team tick like they never ticked before.

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122357855#Comment_122357855

is that the same Malen who has only started 1 of the Dutch 5 games? And left on the bench completely for 2 more of them. He's only played 28-0-72-45-0 mins. I don't think the Dutch even think he's great themselves!

NIMAN

The names mentioned in the last couple of posts, agree with them all. All been good. Could maybe add a few more from various other teams.

But I think it's easier to name the bigger names who have disappointed rather than those who have stood out.

We came into the Euros hoping to see the likes of Mbappe, Kane, Camavinga, Tchuameni, Foden, Sane, De Bruyne, Sesko, Bellingham, Chiesa......but most have disappointed.

Some players have done their reputation the world of good in these euros, others look like they have a tough season ahead, considering they'll get a couple of weeks break at most before heading back into their clubs for pre season. If I was Bayern I'd be worried watching Kane. If I was Madrid, I'd be worried watching Bellingham. They both look busted for a lot of their games.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122357933#Comment_122357933

I didn't realise he played so few minutes. Hasn't he a couple of goals and assists? Every time I've seen him he looks so dangerous, great feet and close control and he opens up defenses.

He's so busy when he's on the field you'd think he played a lot more.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122357845#Comment_122357845

he was never world class

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122358222#Comment_122358222

Malen's a nice footballer, but in this tournament so far hasn't been terribly effective. Came on for a half hour in the first game, didn't do much. Didn't play the second game. Scored an OG in the third game, which they lost by 1. The fourth game was his standout, coming on at halftime and scoring 2 - but in that game Gakpo was very much the star (and Player of the Match), himself scoring the first, and then creating the first for Malen with some brilliant play. Malen then didn't play the 5th game.

Gakpo's been Netherlands standout player by a distance (and one of the tournaments standouts).

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122358598#Comment_122358598

I thought he had a couple of assists as well as the goals?