Connacht vs Munster 07/10/2022

snotboogie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715441#Comment_119715441

There is some truth to this but it’s because Munster are extremely thin in certain positions; front row, second row and centres being the big three. Losing Wycherley, Salanoa, Barron, Ahern and Frisch has been massive. Odogbo is clearly a big talent but he’s a 19 year old coming off an injury which kept him out for 12 months, he looks raw and extremely tentative to carry yet he’s been trusted with significant minutes over these three games. In the centres you have Goggin who is simply not up to this level playing a key role and Fekitoa has been awful in his first few games. I don’t think Farrell lived up to the hype for Munster but the drop off from him to Goggin is enormous. Front row continues to be the big issue in my mind, Knox, Scannell and Kilcoyne are all talented but inconsistent and most worryingly I’m not sure that Wycherley, Barron or Salanoa necessarily fix that. On the out half question, it may be true that Crowley is more suited to the game Rowntree is trying to play, unfortunately we can’t see this yet.

What I’d like to see from Rowntree is a calm reassurance that things will take time but he looked like he had the weight of the world on his shoulders post game.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715557#Comment_119715557

it was mentioned on off the ball (not that thats a guarantee either) a number of times and i think jackman wrote about it possibly.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715562#Comment_119715562

This is all true, but it's also true that we can't blame GR for picking the underperforming players while their replacements have all been plucked out of the squad.

It definitely affects Munster more than other provinces at the moment because we're in a planned transition, and those plans were reliant on the players who have been taken out of the squad

Eg, we wouldn't have allowed Cloete and Cronin to leave if we knew that their replacements would have been unavailable for the first 2 months of the season

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715355#Comment_119715355

I dont care what players you put in the Munster back 3, you could have 3 kolbes out there because the slow and indirect ball they get ( if they even get it) is impossible for them to do anything with.

Feikitoa tonight didn't get any good ball so you cant expect a winger outside him to get some.

leinster had Dave kearney playing on the wing last week and it didnt matter because they are winning the game and dominating in defence long before he has any impact positive or negative, imagine how much better carbery would be playing in that side

So while carbery isnt doing much in attack because we cant give that fast front foot ball to any of our backs he is being asked to contribute defensively and his tackling in two games now is terrible.

A back 3 player finishes whats created inside him, like campbell did tonight on one occasion, and if we have to rely on them to create then it shows huge problems elsewhere.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715438#Comment_119715438

He might but he's doing everything in his power to create alternatives. Frawley's injury puts a spanner in the works but there still another game on tour and we'll see who slots in behind Sexton in November, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the other lads gets a shot, at least in the 23. Farrell is not stupid and Carbery seems to be getting worse. He barely held his own in NZ and other than his intercept he did nothing much good, then that poor tackle attempt for a NZ try (there was another one this evening). His confidence seems poor but it's so long now since he had a really good game that you'd wonder what the future holds for him.

As for the Munster lads on the emerging Irish tour, you'd have to say they are much better off down in SA fighting for a place on a team that's at least playing well. Munster are playing really badly against opposition that are no better.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715567#Comment_119715567

Those were speculations. I can assure you that Munster were not allowed to choose which players went on EI. If there was no cover at all, they could have blocked the player, but otherwise, the IRFU picked the players they wanted and the provinces were left with their squad.

Strand1970

I personally never bought into carbery, I always thought it was a dublin media driven agenda to convince the public he was class because he was a leinster player. But within a top team he has a place. But not a team like munster up until now with a philosophy of grunt SA rugby. Munster have been stuck in a rut for years and let down by their executive. I honestly reckon the current management are the right choice long term. But as a connacht fan it's nice to know we are 3rd best in Ireland at the moment 😀

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715613#Comment_119715613

i do wonder whether carbery regrets coming to munster. if he had stayed with leinster he probably would be their starting 15 and almost by default be the irish 15, keenan would probably only be a squad player or on the wing. much as im not a fan of him at 10 i do feel the munster setup over the last few years has made carbery regress when combined with his injuries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715647#Comment_119715647

and what evidence of that do you have? normally i would say that the irish setup would be calling the shots absolutely but due to the late organisation of the tour outside the test window i would think the provincial set ups had more of a say this time

molloyjh

Munster are in real trouble already. They’ve played Cardiff, Dragons, Zebre and Connacht. They are 4 of the bottom 5 teams in the competition. Of the 13 games those 4 sides have played they’ve only won 2. Both against Munster.

Munster can’t afford to lose any more than 7 games in order to make the play offs. They’ve already lost 3. And they haven’t played Leinster, Ulster or any of the SA teams.

They also need to either win the Irish shield or be in the top 7 or 8 teams to make Europe. That means 8 losses or less. And with their next 3 games being a strong Bulls side, Leinster away and Ulster at home it’s possible that they could be in a really bad place before the November break.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715613#Comment_119715613

You can have him back to Leinster so

I'd prefer Tony Butler over Carbery at this stage

Carbery wouln't have started tonight if Haley and Zebo weren't both injured

He'scurrently playing as dead weight no matter where he's playing

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715567#Comment_119715567

Jackman is not unknown for saying things that didn't turn out to have been true.....

So many double negatives...

Strand1970

Not sure, I say munster are almost committed to play Carbery if AF see's him as part of the ireland squad

Dublenguy

Leinster Fan here. Leinster need a competitive Munster team and Ireland need a competitive Munster team. Not a good night for Irish rugby.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715673#Comment_119715673

The suits in Thomond have been stealing a living for many a year at this stage. They have one of the better squads in the competition, sure not that many really top flight players but they have the bones of a fantastic team and a heap of young lads who are simply not fulfilling their promise. Not the players fault yet there seems zero criticism of the executives even though Munster have been going backwards for a decade. It's very disappointing that even Munster fans expectations' are bottoming out.

JimmyCorkhill

Play the kids

letowski

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715556#Comment_119715556

They are clearly trying to modernise their attack structure the way most use the forwards in pods. A lot different to the basic, one dimensional attack under VanGrann. It requires a greater level of ball skills that clearly some players are struggling with right now. This is going to take time. Denis Leamy think it will take after the new year before we see any cohesiveness for example.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715736#Comment_119715736

thats fine, it wasnt just jackman that was saying it

Clegg

The amount of stupid penalties Munster are conceding is a bigger issue that the handling errors or faulty attacking structure. There's a lack of discipline running through the squad.

JOD in particular has been penalised a lot. In tonight's game I'm pretty sure I heard the red shout at him twice to not change his mind at the maul. He did it anyway.

aloooof

Few points on that:

1. Connacht deserved winners, and could’ve been more tbh. Especially after that first quarter. (That’s even with Munster getting the rub with a few refereeing decisions imo).
2. In general it was a poor quality game tho, from 2 low calibre teams at the moment.
3. Connacht controlled the 2nd half well tho, to be fair. Completely pinned us back, taking advantage of an inexperienced back 3.
4. And on that, Joey Carbery is just not firing at the moment at all. He’s been back long enough now that I think we are entitled to expect more of him, tbh.
5. Beirne our best player by a distance. Gav Coombes had certain flashes, especially in the first half, but it’s hard to pick anyone playing well beyond that tbh.
6. There seemed to be scrum penalties at every scrum. Killer gave up a few, not a great day for him and subbed at HT.
7. One of the few positives was Pa Campbell’s try seemed like the type we weren’t scoring last season, where we actually looked for width when 5m out.
8. 6 points from 4 games, against some of the weaker teams. You fear it’s about to get worse before it gets better.
9. Having said that, anyone calling for the coaching teams head is going oveeboard. For example, I think Joe Schmidt famously lost his first 6/7 Leinster games? We need, and they deserve, a bit of time.

Also, for context, we are missing the following on the EI tour:

1. Barron
2. Josh Wycherly
3. Salanoa
4. Ahern
5. Hodnett
6. Crowley
7. Frisch
8. Nash
9. Daly

And we are missing the following thru injury:

1. Snyman
2. Paddy Kelly
3. Fineen Wycherly
4. Kendellen
5. Jack Daly
6. Haley
7. Earls
8. Conway
9. Zebo
10. Liam Coombes

(And Farell for other circumstances).

Thats really significant

ElisaAtWar

Thought scrum and lineout did better for Connacht. It's a start

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715794#Comment_119715794

Listen gameplan and tactics are fine, and they take time to bed in, but they are not causing these problems.

They have nothing to do with the pass coombes gave philips tonight that he couldn't hold.

Or the knock on last week then the zebra winger knocked the ball out of POM’s hand.

Or the lineout tonight near the end at halfway where the lifter went in front of the jumper, which was the exact same thing that happened last week.

Munster are making simple errors, many of which are unforced and some that are not but still shouldnt happen at this level.

So you can have a game plan good enough to win the world cup, and the players to match, but if they are making simple mistakes you aint winning anything, and currently we dont have enough of the players, nor a gameplan and we are making mistakes.

kuang1

My 2 cents on the season so far and tonight:

Happy to give Rowntree et al 2 seasons before full assessment. We're coming from a 5 year management style of utter drivel.

That said I'd like Rowntree to show a little bit less intensity in his interviews, and show a bit more groundedness. I don't think a coach who can't curb his frustrations because his intentions aren't showing on the pitch instantaneously is a good thing.

POM is world class. Despite the current state of munster rugby, he still shows what a true asset he is.

And despite playing under 5 years of VG, he still progressed as a player whereas other internationals regressed. Earls also in this bracket.

Carbery needs to be let go. He's not up to URC level at this stage, let alone international level.

I know he hadn't played at 15 for a while, but tonight was just a horror show in the basics of rugby.

That "pass" that he threw in a panic (2nd half) just as he was tackled that went behind the winger and straight into touch was horrendous.

A sure sign of a guy with zero confidence and fearful of getting injured.

And what the absolute fcuk was he remonstrating with the referee for after that incident? That just added embarrassment to embarrassment.

He's a liability now.

And to be clear about my take on this, JC is not the sole reason Munster are in the hole we're in. But he certainly is not at this stage going to be a part of the solution.

So get rid please.

Beirne also world class. Can never criticise his performances tbf.

Murray... Has lost his zip, but unfortunately doesn't seem to be compensating for that with guile and putting his experience to full use.

Very possibly mitigated by the standard of the overall squad at the mo.

But Casey imo should be first choice from here on in.

I could go through every other position in the team, and struggle to find too many positives tbf.

We're playing like a team constantly on the back foot, because that's what we are.

I don't see it changing quickly or anytime soon.

We are the province occupying the 4th spot of the provinces in Ireland now. Have been for a bit. Sad but true.

(and I still want someone to tell me who the fcuk thought it was good business to offer VG 2 more years... Remember people: VG left us!!!

That's just nuckin futs.)

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716134#Comment_119716134

to give some bit of credit to carbery that pass was knocked on by the tackler (even if it wasnt a great pass anyway) and it was a bit of a joke that the ref and assistant ref missed it - the ball started on the right trajectory and suddenly went 90 degrees, it was fairly obvious

agree with most of the rest of it though

Dubinusa

The tour has impacted Munster and the other provinces! Obviously, less so for Leinster.

Snyman was a poor signing! He's played less than an hour? He's injured yet again.

Murray is sprinting backwards into decline. He's not up for it and hasn't been for a while.

Carberry is awful!

Zebo looks out of shape and is not a good signing, imo.

The fringe players are ok. Fineen is good, JOD is good and Kleyn is also good. But really, Rowntree should be looking at the new players if things continue to go tits up.

Casey is the better 9! He has to start, imo. Hodnett and Kendellen also must get minutes. Loughman should be given more opportunities. Kilcoyne looked awful. For me , Loughman and Wycherly should be the top 2 loose heads.

I think Rowntree will turn Munster around. It will take time and there will be bad days. Munster have got problems in the back line. The center partnership is weak. I'd play Daly at 13 when he gets back. Campbell would be a good look on one of the wings. At 10 it's difficult. Healy has been poor, Carberry awful and there's no sign of them getting it together. Maybe Crowley can make a splash?

The squad looks good on paper....

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715763#Comment_119715763

Which kids? Casey, Healy, Campbell, Phillips, Coombes, Knox, Edogbo, Gibbons. Those kids?

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715666#Comment_119715666

Whatever little point the EI tour has, would have been even more pointless if the provinces were allowed to decide which players to send.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715757#Comment_119715757

The promising young lads who are ready to step up are in SA. GR played the youngest ever player last week, and another uncapped player yesterday.

JOD is playing rubbish this season while Hodnet is in form but unavailable

Playing JOD the way he's performing is only going to kill his confidence but we have nobody else to replace him

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716211#Comment_119716211

The tour is pointless because nobody on it is going to get near the starting 23 for ireland that isnt near it already under this current coaching setup.

Anyone that plays well will have the caveat that the opposition were poor.

Crowley plays well and hes still going to be behind sexton, byrne, frawley and carbery.

Same goes for other lads.

pickarooney

We need about 40 players to be up to scratch by this time next year. There could be 3 or 4, maybe more, in SA now.

Frawley hasn't played one (capped) minute for Ireland. There's no point saying he's ahead of anyone.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715673#Comment_119715673

I dont think its an exagerration to say they're unlikely to qualify for Europe now, the fixture list will not be kind..