Scotland vs Ireland, Women's World Cup Play-Off Final, RTE 2, 8pm k.o.

TheCitizen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735447#Comment_119735447

It'll blow over. Don't think it will do them any harm at all. Hypocrites in the British media giving them a hard time might help to galavanise the girls and make them a better team if anything. They'll be facing better and tougher opposition in the World Cup next summer.

Big Jack won a World Cup medal for England at centre back, he didn't mind his men's team singing a few rebel songs to increase camaraderie amongst the squad. These girls are the first Irish soccer team to make it to the World Cup Finals since 2002 and were rightly tapping into that vibe. Fair play to them and I hope they have a great World Cup.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735517#Comment_119735517

In fairness, the world has moved on in the ~30 years since then. It's not a difficult lesson - don't sing pro terrorist organisation songs. Regardless of the scale of backlash, it's just a silly and extremely unhelpful thing to do in this day and age.

It probably will blow over before long - but hopefully before it does it can be a bit of a learning moment for people in the public eye.

TheCitizen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735543#Comment_119735543

It's funny people talk about "this day and age", but this phrase "this day and age" only refers to some things like singing Irish rebel songs but not others like indulging in extreme English nationalism and jingoism and harking back to the days of a long gone empire. The nostalgia for British imperialism has lead to the self destructive and dangerous brexit, nostalgia for Irish Republicanism of the past manifests itself in singing about the different versions of the IRA the last of which hasn't been active for over 20 years.

I think I know which form of nostalgia is the more dangerous, but you won't see (what appears to be the majority) of the hypocrites in the British media refer to that.

NIMAN

The irony of the English asking if education on the past is needed! You couldn't make it up.

This is only a storm among folk on sky news and the daily mail. They don't support the team anyway so no odds. I would say this has lost next to no supporters of the team in Ireland, and it be old news in a day or two.

A few made a mistake, we all make mistakes in life. Move on, a chant doesn't injure anyone. People are just looking to be outraged. They will have a new victim in a few days time.

breezy1985

At no point did any of the girls say they supported the IRA.

They were simply just telling people what the graffiti on the walls said.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735603#Comment_119735603

Again though, regardless of the Brits and the issues of their own jingoistic nationalistic shift, that doesn't make the Irish representatives singing pro terrorist organisation songs any better. The fact the culture behind those calling them out on it sucks, doesn't mean it doesn't deserve to be called out.

I want and expect us to be better than that nationalistic rubbish, we've moved beyond that and should be defining ourselves on our own terms rather than as a by product of them. And particularly when it relates to a group as destructive as the IRA. There's nothing for us to to be celebrating about the atrocities and murders they committed in the 70s, 80s and 90s.

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735615#Comment_119735615

I'd say if anything the reaction from some has increased support for the team in Ireland.

breezy1985

At what point does a song become ok. What is the historic cut of point.

It alike you can sing a song about people who killed other people but it has to have passed a certain time point to be ok.

Reminds me of that South Park scene where everyone celebrates because it's been 22.3 years so AIDS can finally be joked about.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735721#Comment_119735721

In this case it's nearly the opposite, as we've moved further away from that point in history we've grown beyond defining ourselves by the war of independence. Particularly as the two countries become more closely connected as partners in business and travel as equals, it grows to feel more uncomfortable to sing songs from a different time relating to political murder and terrorist attacks against innocents.

As Citizen said above, no-one would've batted an eyelid about Jacks world cup sides singing it in 90 and 94... but I think the Omagh bombings in 98 changed that sentiment a lot, when it becomes more closely connected to the murder of innocent children and teenagers than to the political struggle before.

(Just like Declan Rice, I was happy out to blast out an auld rebel song when I was a young fella, but as an adult you kinda have to become a bit more conscious of what your words and actions really mean, and see if you still stand by them.)

10000maniacs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735615#Comment_119735615

This is only a storm among folk on Sky News, Daily Mail and RTE Donnybrook Dublin 4.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735421#Comment_119735421

People died at the hands of the PIRA, their families are still suffering. You think it's just a laugh?

What about the Gardai in Limerick who were assassinated by the PIRA? Do you think that Jerry McCabe's widow thinks it is fine? I have relatives who worked with Jerry McCabe. Speaking to them today, they were hurt and upset. Do you think that is just a laugh?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735767#Comment_119735767

Or National anthem is such a song and that's ok. Rule Britannia is a war song, Charge of the Light Brigade a war poem. Americas anthem is a war song, Battle Hymn of the Republic too and what about Bella Ciao two of those three which are about terrorists.

If they sang Roger Casement instead of Celtic Symphony would they be getting tut-tutted right now ?

It is definitely true that war songs have an "acceptability" time limit.

10000maniacs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735832#Comment_119735832

Whatever the PIRA did, the soccer players didn't do it.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735881#Comment_119735881

Yeah, historical war songs definitely seem to get an easier time of it alright - particularly when its a century or more since their time. I don't think a new anthem could get away with similar though. Even with those though, there's clearly embarrassment over some anthems and historical songs - a big chunk of the US Anthem is literally never ever sang cause it's just horrible. Same goes for Rule Britannia, where we only ever hear a little bit of it. So I think there's an implicit understanding that their lyrics are inherently wrong, and we just get a taster of the song in public airings.

Celtic Symphony is a different kettle of fish as well, with no official national connection at all, it's just a regular song that happens to have a chorus that celebrates a modern terrorist group whose victims still have families out there trying to live their lives.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735919#Comment_119735919

Obviously... but do you not agree that even if you didn't murder people yourself, that it's perhaps not wise to sing songs celebrating those that did? (especially in a somewhat public capacity)

I really don't think there was any malice at all from anyone, just unthinking ignorance that we've all been guilty of on one subject or another with our choices of language I'm sure... these are just learning moments where we all sometimes realise the actual reality of the meaning behind words we might have reeled off without examination.

Pogue eile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734963#Comment_119734963

You're such a good role model, trolling on the internet pretending not to be a Rangers fan for the last few years lol, jog on genius!

Which part of the song do you find unacceptable for Irish people to sing about as a matter of interest??

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735674#Comment_119735674

Ha, true enough.

A word is enough for the continually offended to be offended though.

Brian Warfield called them cranks today 😂

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735988#Comment_119735988

It was a war by UN definition. Call it murder all you want but if you do then all war songs are taboo.

TheRiverman

It was very stupid .They were in a dressing room after beating Scotland in Glasgow, city of Celtic and Rangers and arguably the most sectarian fans in football.

TheCitizen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735707#Comment_119735707

As one of the lads on Newstalk Off The Ball said there; you’d hear Celtic Symphony playing in Coppers plenty of nights. Go in there and tell them to stop it. I don’t think it’s meant to offend, but someone in Glasgow last night obviously took offence.

What rankles with me is the hypocrisy of that Sky Sports hack who is part of a media that indulges in and pushes a far more dangerous little Englander anti European agenda.

We generally don’t vote for xenophobic charters like brexit or elect right wing governments to double down on it. If Sinn Féin eventually get elected as the main government party in the Dáil it’ll be because they engaged in the peace process and not because of using the type of populist nationalism that has taken a grip in politics in Britain.

We don’t need history or moral lessons from English media hacks and that’s what I took exception to.

votecounts

Brits giving out singing Up the Ra, yet next month they'll be like fascists in telling people to wear poppies to honor people who massacred people in Ireland and countless others in other countries. It's not the Irish who need to read History books, it's the little Englanders and their ilk

Also, Great win for the women who don't need to be lectured by some Sky Sports hack who will be wearing a poppy to honor mass murderers next month

Brewster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735990#Comment_119735990

Good one! Does this make you feel better?!

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119736327#Comment_119736327

If SF ever take power in the Dail, it will be exactly because they used the type of populist nationalism that has taken a grip of SOME politics in the UK.

ShamoBuc

Mod Note:

Enough already.

No more of the Political Chat.

There's a place for that and the Soccer Forum isn't it.

ArnoldJRimmer

While admittedly not knowing a ton about women's football, I assume that the preference in the draw will be to get either of the cohosts in our group next year as neither are in the world top 10? That said, we did seem to equip ourselves quite well against Sweden, so maybe bring on the big guns

https://www.the42.ie/2023-womens-world-cup-draw-ireland-5891343-Oct2022/

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119736636#Comment_119736636

You'd definitely be hoping for one of the co-hosts. They beat Australia in friendly last year but not sure what kind of team they had out, and NZ are ranked 22nd in the world so shouldn't be much between either team.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119736156#Comment_119736156

I dont think those fans heard them singing the songs ..... in a dressing room, in a stadium .......

Pauliedragon

It's a shame it's on in Oz and NZ and not Europe. KO times wont be very time friendly for a lot of people.

ArnoldJRimmer

At the same time, I had great fun watching the games for Japan/ South Korea. Not sure I could manage to drink pints at 9am now though

jacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735790#Comment_119735790

..... and UEFA.

Pauliedragon

UEFA sticking their noses in now with an "investigation"

johnnyryan89

They'll be dragged to the Hague next to answer for their crimes.

10000maniacs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739529#Comment_119739529

Thats only because RTE, Sky and the Mail stuck their noses into the feeding trough first.

greenspurs

And the Scottish Police ......

Jaysus H Chroist like .......... gway ta fcuk will yee .....

TheRiverman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738201#Comment_119738201

Probably not, but I'm sure a lot of people have seen it on Social Media after it was recorded and uploaded by one of the players. It has overshadowed the football and their achievement of qualifying for the World Cup.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740736#Comment_119740736

I doubt the people who support them during the world cup will care.

Pogue eile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740736#Comment_119740736

For anyone who thinks that it has overshadowed the achievement I suggest you really get a little perspective. I'm still very unclear as to what the supposed offence is from the song?

That odious pri*k on SKY could do with a good slap and a good history lesson.

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741482#Comment_119741482

Cause apparently anyone that listens to or sings along to a Wolfe Tones song is an IRA supporter.

Must be a lot of IRA heads coming out of the woodworks this week with Celtic Symphony at number 1, 2, 17, and 36 in the Irish iTunes chart. It's number 2 and 15 in the UK iTunes chart. Should rerelease it for the Christmas charts for the **** and change the up the ra part to ooh ah up na mná.

Come Out Ye Black and Tans at number 13, Sean South at number 15, Streets of New York at number 31 and Boys of the Old Bridge at number 35.

happyoutscan

Delighted for the team and their great win and not bothered by what they are singing whatsoever.

The world has gone soft.

Whoever shared it would want their bloody brains checked. Stupidity of the highest order.

And RTE can go and f*ck themselves.

TheCitizen

The headline in the Irish Star paper yesterday was a good one;

“Oh Ah, Up VeRA’

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119742207#Comment_119742207

Was screen recorded by someone from Instagram. The sub keeper Grace Moloney, she was streaming the celebrations on her Instagram live and someone screen recorded it to share.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119742220#Comment_119742220

https://totapstore.ie/products/cork-city-jersies-poster

Someone was quick enough to get t-shirts designed on the Wednesday.

TheCitizen

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/amp/football/james-mcclean-sunderland-chants-274451

I didn’t know where to put this we’ve been listening to the media making a big thing about the Irish players on the women’s team singing a song with IRA in the lyrics. Will Sky Sports News bring on a player or representative of Sunderland and then accost them on the behaviour of what sounds like an entire stadium? Will the Irish media like Newstalk’s Joe Molloy and others ignore it because it’s “whataboutery”?

I hope the men in the media and it’s mostly men are proud of themselves that they hammered a group of women for singing something in a moment of celebration while ignoring decades of the above type of abuse on a mass scale. About 30000 people in that stadium as the report says and sounds like the lot of them are engaging in the abuse. It was easier to hammer the group of women perhaps.

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119759328#Comment_119759328

As he said you couldn't make the stupidity up that they had Niall Quinn there and celebrating his career at Sunderland while fans then shouting fenian c*nt, fenian b*stard, and Irish c*nt at another player. Would be good if Niall Quinn came out and spoke up regarding what happened at the match.

FA have fined Barnsley before for chants targeting McClean and given Kirk Broadfoot a ten game ban for abuse directed at McClean in-game. FA need to buck up and start taking the abuse McClean receives more serious.

TheCitizen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119759615#Comment_119759615

I’d also like to hear Joe Molloy and the Off The Ball boys address this sort of stuff that’s been going on on a mass scale for decades in stadiums throughout England and Scotland with the same verve that they laid into the Irish women players and not sit there ignoring it because it’s what they describe as whataboutery. Don’t even start with the British media, the hypocrisy stinks with them. They’ll be indulging in their annual month long poppy fascism festival soon.

Spineless hypocrisy from large segments of the British and even more cowardly Irish media.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119759615#Comment_119759615

Problem is, McClean doesn't fit the demographic that is 'protected'.

Too often vile abuse of James is dismissed here in Ireland by fans and the media because ," he brings it all on himself".

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119761103#Comment_119761103

Just imagine if he was Pakistani, and it was Paki instead of Fenian or Irish being added to the abuse. Those people would probably have been up in front of a judge Monday morning.

TheCitizen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119761103#Comment_119761103

Yep. There was even a character on this thread that was coming out with that he brings on himself stuff. James was getting abuse long before he did a tweet wearing a balaclava, he got vile abuse simply for not wearing a poppy during their annual poppy fascist season.