Should Western countries take in Russian men fleeing mobilisation?

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119733880#Comment_119733880

Wanting to save your own skin is not a Deep, moral or religious consideration

sandbelter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119733895#Comment_119733895

That maybe one perspective on it.

But it doesn't change the fact they are still entitled to the protection of Refugee convention.

And I for one believing in human dignity, rule of law, and honouring treaties .....I think they are entitled to that.

Oscar Madison

Tell them all, both Ukrainian & Russian to go back home & pick up a gun!

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734019#Comment_119734019

I'm more into not allowing a refugee convention that's no longer fit for purpose to be weaponised and used against the west as it has been for the last decade

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734019#Comment_119734019

They're not.

That's the problem with the modern right. Happy to inflict suffering and misery on everyone else but the second consequences manifest themselves, they turn into wailing victims.

If they'd left when Putin initiated the war, I'd be sympathetic. Leaving now shows they were happy with other people dying and only really care once it affects them. These are not people we need to be importing.

AMKC

No I do not think they should. The only way that Putin will fall now by the looks of it is when his people have had enough and rise up against him. So the more Russians still in Russia the better. Yes I know they are not all bad but what if a Russian that comes here suddenly decides he or she hates us all aa well as our way of life and goes on the rampage or sets of a bomb? Is that worth the risk?

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734078#Comment_119734078

Do you apply that logic to Syrian refugees who didn’t speak out against bashar Al Assad?

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734080#Comment_119734080

What if a Syrian thinks that? Or an afghani?

Do you apply that logic to them?

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734234#Comment_119734234

I think them people are less likely to hate us as we offer refuge from them but not is not to say that ond or two of them might be a bit messed up in the head and do something like what I mentioned but they will have had a harder journey getting to here unlike a Russian who will have just crossed a border or got on a plane so maybe after all that effort they will want to make something of there lives and maybe hope they or there children can help to rebuild tgere country's in the future to something better than they are now.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734170#Comment_119734170

Do you support taking in Syrian refugees?

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734432#Comment_119734432

Yes. Why?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734443#Comment_119734443

Just wondering.

I see no reason why Russians in no danger should get priority from people fleeing actual warzones.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119733880#Comment_119733880

Any that had a "deep moral, religious or political convictions or to other valid reasons of conscience" has had 8 months to leave. I worked with a few Russians in the past and when the war broke out I contacted one of them to see how she was and she told me that her sister was still in Moscow but was getting out - maybe to Finland - and that many of the educated people were trying to leave. She is in the US and said that her mother was visiting her and was not going to go back. That was back in Feb.

Why would wealthy Russians (who control the country) bother their arses changing a system which can terrorise and murder other peoples, if they are allowed to temporarily escape from any negative consequences of that system if it eventually comes back to bite them in the arse?

It wouldn't be a bad deal now would it? Using your connections to make yourself a multi-millionaire on the back of a system which steals from its own poor and tries to murder others. The system is grand because you can always send those poor off to die on your behalf like in the early rounds of conscription where it was mainly minorities. Then if it gets to the stage that that might start coming from you, you can get out and people who are suffering financially because of the system you support (i.e. in the EU), will take you in and shelter you until it blows over.

I seem to remember some countries basically opening borders to Russians at the start. There was even talk by the US to allow all their scientists and engineers to emigrate easily.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734030#Comment_119734030

Do you have any kids sized guns for all the Ukrainian children that are here? Some of them might not be able to hold or carry an adults one.

HerrKuehn

We should definitely not take them, for lots of different reasons already outlined

1) We have no legal obligation to take draft dodgers.

2) Little green men start appearing when there is sufficient numbers of Russians in a country.

3) Where would we put them? In the same accommodation as the Ukrainians?

4) There are 140m Russians, so taking even millions of them in will have no effect on the numbers Russia can mobilise, it will just affect who gets mobilised.

5) It is better if angry Russians stay in Russia as it can only be changed from within.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734495#Comment_119734495

What about Russians who are potentially forced to fight in a war zone? Should we not give them asylum?

Whats the difference between giving asylum to a family from DRC who would be forced to fight for the local warlord vs Russians who are forced to fight for putin?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734936#Comment_119734936

The Russians voted for Putin multiple times.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734948#Comment_119734948

Sure and I suppose there was no way there was voter suppression or opponents going missing or getting poisoned?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734974#Comment_119734974

Not on the scale where you can control the votes of a country of nearly 200 million people?

Why should Russians get priority over Ukrainians or Syrians?

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734987#Comment_119734987

Who said they should? 🧐

85603

Yes, but with strong bias to those who have surrendered in the field, extra points if theyve given up hardware and/or intel.

Have to avoid a freebie situation where any joe soap can just say 'right im off to france/finland/ireland'.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734996#Comment_119734996

It's inherent in the premise of your statement. There isn't infinite capacity for refugees. Taking Russians means not taking people who actually need asylum.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735004#Comment_119735004

It’s not inherent in anything I’ve said.

You’ve just presumed.

Im asking what’s the difference between taking one asylum seeker vs another.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735062#Comment_119735062

I don't accept that the Russians are asylum seekers, legitimate asylum seekers will be able to show a history of being against the government. Otherwise they are just fleeing because they don't want to be drafted. Also, individual states have to think about what effect taking in Russians might have, they come with a lot of baggage and yes, we should put our interests first in these cases.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735062#Comment_119735062

Yes it is, for the reason I gave.

You've yet to answer my question as to why Russians should get priority despite most of them being completely safe.

85603

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058267046/should-western-countries-take-in-russian-men-fleeing-mobilisation

Good call point 3.

Average Russians could integrate well in (rest of) Europe. No religious patrols, no banned cartoons characters, no special food preparations for locals to adapt to. Russian culture is largely compatible. Certainly more compatible than others. Looks like its mostly just their political setup thats problematic.

If their politics wasnt so fked up theyd probably be integrated with the eu in some manner.

I can see them being the next refugee crisis once this is all over. Cause their economy is now fully doomed. Just a matter of time. 2023 or 2024 id guess.

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735210#Comment_119735210

Would they be given priority or would they be given the same rights as all other asylum seekers.

I don’t think it’s fair to say Russian citizens are safe. They are only safe from their own government if they don’t speak out against them. There were laws put in place in February against protesting meaning many years in jail.

If you’re poor in Russia (and many are) you may not have been able to afford to leave with your entire family in February so kept your head down. Then mobilisation was enacted and some that were always quietly opposed, had no choice left but to flee or face death on a frontline. It’s a catch 22 for them.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735256#Comment_119735256

They did this to themselves. They had the chance to become a proper democracy but instead opted to become an oligarchic petrostate. Too many people in the world suffer under autocratic rule and are much more deserving of sympathy than the Russians.

There are limited places for refugees. People living in a relatively safe country should not be given scarce resources.

Patrick2010

Ah ffs what is the hardon some people have for taking in the world. Time to tell the powers that be that we've done our best but can't take on any more.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735256#Comment_119735256

They always have the choice when drafted of refusing to go, quiet quitting or surrendering when they get to Ukraine.