Smart meter

Gooser14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119857953#Comment_119857953

If you are not selling power back to the network one could opt for a day/night meter & avoid the peak rates.

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119843133#Comment_119843133

Always a lot of righteous on here,too

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119857953#Comment_119857953

A lot here can see the future or are a GREEN or work for the power companies

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119857953#Comment_119857953

Who knows, maybe so, maybe not. From experience smart plans are smart for the provider not so much for the customer. I could be wrong but for now I'll take my chances.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858721#Comment_119858721

It is pretty certain but I don't see what chances you are taking. You aren't going to get cheaper electricity by staying on an old meter.

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860786#Comment_119860786

No but I might escape the worst. I might not.

Friend of mine works in the ESB and we spoke about this topic. He told me that on average smart plans pay ~ 5% - 6% more for their electricity, today.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119861625#Comment_119861625

You won't avoid anything but you certainly will behind in options. I don't think you get what I am saying, if you don't have a smart meter you will pay more on the hourly rate by the time they change to smart only plans. It doesn't matter if people aren't using their smart plans effectively now. You seem to think that when plans are changed because you are on an old meter you will get a better rate because people are not using the smart plans effectively at the moment. Just think for a minute why would a company do that? The goal is to have smart plans per government plans there won't be an incentive to be able to avoid that there will be a stick in the form of costs.

Do you really think that civil servants are aware how people react to change here and how they scheme to avoid it. All the people saying they wouldn't pay LPT are stuck with it with no way to avoid it. You may think this is like water charges but it isn't as people are accustomed to paying a bill and they know they will get cut off.

Fight the sky and sea all you like

TomOnBoard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738335#Comment_119738335

You can opt out if you wish.

Mine was installed in 2019. Everything continues as it was, except no need to take a reading (bar one occasion when the internet connection dropped so it was an estimation).

The smart plans are not mandatory - you can just continue with 24-hour or day/night standard... until I suppose there's no option but the smart plans, which do seem pricey.

But I don't know what the issue with the meter is. It's just new, more efficient technology.

kabakuyu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860786#Comment_119860786

Yet that is exactly what I am doing, I have an old D/N meter with a tariff plan that was not available to smart plans/meters, currently paying 28c day and 9c night inclusive of vat.I have nothing against smart meters and will get one when its in my interest to get one, but it seems that the energy companies are using the smart meter rollout and the unprecedented price increases to engage in a bit of price gouging, there also seems to a concerted effort from the powers that be to curb peak demand and this ensures very high prices for peak hours (5-7pm or 4-8pm)in the future.

kabakuyu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120090400#Comment_120090400

Smart meters do not currently support D/N tariffs as used by the current 270k consumers that have D/N plans on the the old meters.There has been numerous discussions and news articles on this recently, latest thread is here.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058278418/meter-tariff-compatibility#latest

Alun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119861625#Comment_119861625

I have an electricity monitor from which I can download my usage as a CSV file and import into Excel. I made a spreadsheet that takes all that data and tells me what I would pay for a 24h tariff versus a smart tariff and to my surprise the smart tariff actually worked out very slightly cheaper, albeit by only around €6 per month. I have a plug-in hybrid car that I charge approx twice a week, and if I shifted the charging to the night rate it would save me another €15 a month or so. Again, not a massive amount but it kind of debunks the idea that smart tariffs will result in massively higher bills.

This all depends on your usage patterns and any changes / tweaks to the smart tariff bands in the future of course.

Ethereal Cereal

Yes, I applied to have one installed in advance of their rolling out in my county

Its easy for me now to be able to see instantly what energy I am using and monitor my usage, and I switched to a smart plan with energia, and recently switched to a new smart plan with FloGas. I have my dishwahser, washing machine etc timed to come on at night, and get my showers early in the morning offpeak, before 8am. It really helps with the bills, I'm not concerned about suspicions, or conspiracy theories around them.

kabakuyu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120090763#Comment_120090763

Load shifting has been available for the last 40 years via D/N meters,and energy monitoring can be done via an amazon purchased monitor for 20e,theres nothing new here from the smart meters except you are paying more than D/N customers who are still on the old meters.

Vita nova

For those that aren't aware, you can see your smart meter readings from ESB Networks, regardless of whether you have a smart meter plan or not. I presume it applies to all suppliers as well. See link below for registration:

https://www.esbnetworks.ie/existing-connections/meters-and-readings/benefits-of-customer-portal

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120308690#Comment_120308690

I didn't sign up for the smart meter plan and I can't see the info on my online account. It just shows the charge per bill under billing and usage.

Cluedo Monopoly

Can they install it without telling you? I don't want one.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309696#Comment_120309696

It's their equipment, so I suspect they can do it without your permission.

Kittykat67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309696#Comment_120309696

If its ur esb meter and it's outside yes they could do it when ur not there. If you are there they knock at the door and ask if it is a suitable time. I said no and he left.If you don't want one let them know when they ring to make an appointment. When they are in your area you will get letters and phone calls. Just tell them you don't want one and to take you off the list and that will be in the end of it. We did that over a year and a half ago and nothing since. My mother inlaw started getting the letters and calls last month she told them over the phone to take her off the list and the girl said that's no problem. She said if you change your mind to ring them back and they will do it then if she wants it. But otherwise they won't contact her again.

Alun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309667#Comment_120309667

It's being rolled out to all customers bit by bit, it only appeared on my account recently.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309762#Comment_120309762

Ah, good to know.

Vita nova

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309667#Comment_120309667

Pretty much as Alun said above, it may take a few weeks for your readings to appear.

Ger Roe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310355#Comment_120310355

Or years .... I had a smart meter installed two years ago, I don't operate a smart plan and I just signed up now to see my user data. There is nothing there except dates of readings and a message to say that roll out is continuing and to check back in a few weeks. So far... as an already low level energy user, the smart rate plans are of no use to me and two years on there is no usable consumer focused data available to me. Who exactly is my smart meter currently benefiting?... not me.

The smart meter is still of no useful advantage to me at the moment, but I have no doubt that the providers rip off practice and government supported policy of adapting usage patterns to distract from lack of progress in demand capacity provision, will mean that I will eventually have to sign up to a smart plan, simply to reduce the rip off factor, rather than to actually save money. I have had a domestic energy monitor in use for many years, that originally cost me €20 and gives me more user useful info than the smart meter currently does.... without the installation hype and the smoke and mirrors price plans. Then they have the cheek to spend money on advertising asking me to put on the green jersey and check if the wind is blowing before I put the washer/dryer on... as though we are all in it together due to unforseen circumstances. The energy crisis was coming here , before Putin fired a shot.... our leaders and their quango regulators were sleep walking in to an energy crisis through incompetence and lack of preparation/investment/development and an expectation that purely commercial interests will somehow adopt a patriotic and environmental service attitude to energy provision.

'Smart meters save you money' says the advert on the radio.... no they don't .... being aware of your usage does. The scope for saving has always been with the consumer, through adapting usage patterns and availing of day night meters - what is going to happen now, is that we will be conned and forced into multiple changing usage patterns to try and reduce the rip off prices and to distract from the effects of governments/providers/regulators not planning for increased energy demands.

The whole situation is a joke.... how will we ever get a benefit from cheaper to produce wind powered energy if the providers can pin their rates to gas and coal generation costs? Who signed the hard pressed consumer up for that deal?.... the same people who ended up paying money back to commercial toll bridge operators because there were less cars than were promised to them, passing through their bridges and gates during the covid years. Will they/we also end up paying the toll operators if we are successful in reducing the amount of cars on the roads generally, as per our environmental targets? . I suppose their compensation payments be passed over to us as another made up tax/levy/charge.

We need a refocus on energy and other essential services provision, to ensure that consumer interest is protected. It is a joke to hear the Taoiseach say yesterday that he 'hopes' to see an unspecified reduction in energy prices by some time in the undefined future. In the days when we operated the ESB as a national service, he could have had a swift direct input, in the interests of the consumer. We had a world class national energy provision service and we let it go to commercial speculation with a built in cash cow population and sod all regulation and consumer protection.

I am going to stop now.... and save my energy :)

Gooser14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312482#Comment_120312482

By signing up to see your data usage have you now activated the smart meter & thereby restricted yourself to smart plans in the future, especially if you change providers?

Ger Roe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312608#Comment_120312608

No. It is just data... I have not signed up to anything smart plan related.

riddles

If you switch provider is it now mandatory you need to move to a smart metre plan?

Alun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312482#Comment_120312482

My meter was also installed about 2 years ago, but I have only recently had the ability to look at my usage data, within the last few weeks.

Initially only those who were on a smart plan could see this data, but recently ESB started rolling it out to the rest. Just be patient it'll happen.

As for the benefits of a smart meter, no more estimated bills for a start, but this assumption that you'll automatically pay more on a smart tariff isn't necessarily true. It all depends on your usage patterns, and in my case, even before any load shifting to night time, the cost was nearly the same, very slightly less in fact.

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120315558#Comment_120315558

I wouldn't think so.

Alun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120315558#Comment_120315558

No.

KildareP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120313383#Comment_120313383

If you're getting half-hourly, daily and weekly breakdowns of your usage, then you are technically now on a smart plan (your bill will show MCC12 as opposed to MCC01).

Ger Roe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319858#Comment_120319858

I am not getting any data at the moment (that is my point) and I have certainly not signed up to a smart plan.

If I have 'accidentally' activated some 'buy in' aspect, then the useless, non customer focused regulator, will be hearing from me ... again. My understanding is that the user data is now being made freely available to consumers so that they can be assisted in making an informed choice about plan suitability... like what should have been done in the first place.

I have had a few run ins with CRU before, over their total lack of support for the consumer focused aspect of the energy market. The introduction of the Smart meter is a case in point.... generate fear and suspicion by putting in the meter and then hiding user data from the consumer...... fcuking brilliant idea!

This is the link to register for the ESB customer portal : https://www.esbnetworks.ie/existing-connections/meters-and-readings/benefits-of-customer-portal

This is what they say it does :

Creating an online account with ESB Networks will allow you access to a host of services including:

• Access to the smart meter data for your property
• View power outage status at your property
• Find your Meter Point Reference Number (MPRN)
• Submit a meter reading

Note that there is no mention of technically then being on a smart plan.

Gadgetman496

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320800#Comment_120320800

I thought the smart meter was going to put an end to estimated bills due to the fact your meter can be read remotely, so why does the online account have the option to Submit a meter reading? Is it for Rental/selling/buying purposes or what?

Ger Roe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120321194#Comment_120321194

Some buildings will have a smart meter fitted, but the particular geographic location may not be able to receive a reliable enough wireless signal to support it's smart communication feature. In that case, the meter will have to be manually logged by the network provider, or the consumer will still have to report readings, to avoid estimated bills. The reliability of the wireless signal can only be accurately tested when the meter is installed and a bad or unreliable signal will reduce the type of smart services you can avail of.

Meter connectivity is measured in 4 tiers :

If your meter connectivity is 1: ESB networks will not be able to connect with your smart meter remotely and will continue to read your meter manually. In such scenario, you won’t be able to opt-in for Interval (30 minute) Smart Services. If your meter connectivity is 2: ESB networks will be able to connect with your smart meter but not reliably. In such scenario, you won’t be able to opt-in for Interval (30 minute) Smart Services. If your meter connectivity is 3: ESB networks will be able to connect with your smart meter reliably enough. In such scenario, you will be able to opt-in for Interval (30 minute) Smart Services. If your meter connectivity is 4: ESB networks will have full connectivity with your smart meter, you will be able to opt-in for Interval (30 minute) Smart Services.

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120321194#Comment_120321194

A lot of providers are busy sending out bills with inflated usage.So,use the submit a reading option regularly.Not content with gouging on prices they want more money from consumers.I would advise submitting a reading before your bill is due to issued-you can decide on the day from looking at your billing cycle.With regard to post number 134 above I am within 250m of an antenna with no obstacles in the way apart the wall that my meter is mounted on(internally)and getting estimated bills.Electric Ireland told me they would send out estimated bills at least 3 times per year regardless of the type of meter when I was their customer.

Gadgetman496

Are we talking cellular wireless communication, as in each meter has a SIM?

batistuta9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120321757#Comment_120321757

Yeah, 2G on three network afaik

batistuta9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320800#Comment_120320800

Some EI customers are saying they opted into something similar on EI site without having the smart plan but this changed their mcc, effectively activating the meter

Ger Roe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120322315#Comment_120322315

That might be the case, if you go through your electricity seller (although I would expect the implications to be clearly explained.... but then again, this is Ireland, where the consumer is fleeced and receives no support from the regulator)

What does activating the meter mean?, presumably it is already activated in that it is sending data to someone from the time of installation, my understanding from the link that I clicked is that I now get to see that data, as should have been available to me on day one, in a fair and transparent campaign and as an aid to making an informed decision on the plan options presented. I have not signed up to any smart plan with my energy seller.

I requested to see my data through the ESB Network link (not an energy provider), I will be verrrrrrry annoyed if there are any trick plan signup aspects resulting. The network infrastructure operator and the energy sellers, are different entities.

If anyone thinks that have been conned into a smart plan situation, they should complain to their energy seller and then to the CRU.

https://www.cru.ie/make-a-complaint/complain-to-the-cru/

Update : As I was typing, an advert for Electiric Ireland came on the TV... it mentions getting data when you sign up for a smart plan. The links I see on their website suggest signing up for a plan (Home Electric +) to see your data. If that is the basis that the EI customers accessed their data, then it looks like they have signed up for a plan. If they feel that it was unclear what the implications of their action was going to be, then see above from the CRU, on how to complain.

https://www.electricireland.ie/smart-meters/plans

"Home Electric+ plans unlock even more data to give you advanced insights about your electricity usage."

crl84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120322315#Comment_120322315

This is correct.

I had a 24hr plan, MCC01.

Signed up for Home Electric+ Energy Insights (or similarly named) which hasn't changed my plan details, same 24hr unit price and discount, but the latest bill is MCC12.

Curiously, the email when you sign up says that you will get a discounted rate "that doesn't disappear". My discounted rate at the time was 26%, and continued to be 26% after I signed up. So in theory, the 26% discount should be forever? :

"We’re delighted to welcome you to Home Electric+, the smart meter price plan from Electric Ireland.

 With this new price plan, you will get a discounted rate that doesn’t disappear, as well as access to your new smart online account where you will be able to see the details behind your usage at a glance.

 Your online account will show you when you use most electricity in your house, what appliances are using most electricity and you will see personal tips on how to reduce your usage and your carbon footprint.

 To make the most of these and lots more great features, you can activate your online account in less than two minutes.

Thank you again for choosing Electric Ireland as your trusted energy partner.

Kind regards,

The Electric Ireland Team"

Potential-Monke

Kinda sounds like you signed up to a new smart plan... Actually, doesn't sound like it. You did. It may be the same rates, but you're now on a smart plan.

"We’re delighted to welcome you to Home Electric+, the smart meter price plan from Electric Ireland."

I'd also imagine "that doesn't disappear" will disappear eventually, and they'll be allowed to do it because our regulator doesn't believe in the actual meaning of words (see: mobile/broadband companies and "unlimited").

wench

With Electric Ireland, you're greeted with this banner

Good news,

Your smart electricity meter is now online and working correctly. You can now get free access to electricity insights, detailed usage graphs, monthly billing and lots more.

If you click through to see this good news, you get this page, with the highly suspicious agreement to allow them to use it for "account management and billing purposes"

deezell

This is my smart meter readings from installation last April until this March. I've shown the cost of three different potential BGE plans. Standard is the best it seems. The dishwasher is the only thing that might be put on night rate timer, it's often switched on last thing anyway, otherwise night usage is just the fridge, and TVs etc on standby. Figure for Standard total is the sum off all readings, 3334 kwh, by 43.37c. Similarly for Loyalty Night plan, Day and Peak readings combined at day rate of 51.76c

Day/Night is €150 more than Standard, Smart plan about €27 more.

The thing is, I'm currently not on any plan. My last bill was the old meter reading in April '22 . BGE haven't used the new readings since the meter went in, or engaged with me on what plan I'd like. Meantime my fixed monthly direct debits and the government subs are all accumulating for a year now as a substantial credit. Last bill on Standard rate was €0.28/unit last April, I probably now owe about €1232 on average of 28c and 43c for electricity, plus all the standing charges, so I'm covered by the credit.

I don't see any reason to move from standard, but I'm worried they might give me some line that I have to choose some 'Smart' plan other than the standard one. I'm sure the system in 'Smart' enough to ignore the three seperate readings and just bill at the cumulative one, that would be 'T0' ? Their system is aware that i have a smart meter, as it no longer allows me to input manual readings, so I don't know whats going on, but I don't want to be screwed either by being forced onto some ridiculous rate. I'm sure ESBN are sending the readings to BGE, or maybe not.

I don't think there's any value in changing to smart tariffs, and with basic tariff nearly double what we paid before the energy crisis/gouge opportunity, who wants a day/peak rate of nearly 60c/unit? Imagine paying this rate to charge an electric car, or power a heat pump in the evening? The figures don't lie. Consumers have dialled back their electricity use to the bare necessities, so the power companies are selling us less, yet ESB generating profits have soared by 3 times from 2021.