Why is there hostility towards centrists on social media?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119748208#Comment_119748208

Social welfare is a vital component of society. You only need to look at 19th century Europe to see that. Still too broad a question tbh, but I'm not against social welfare. Ireland made a huge mistake when they scaled back social housing. We're all suffering because of it, including those of us who don't need it.

I don't think free markets are a bad thing, but regulation is clearly needed with them. Anyone with a slight knowledge of economics should know this. For example, anti monopoly regulation is required for the efficient functioning of a free market. An market should be designed to benefit consumers.

No problem with immigration. But I recognize the reality that if we opened the borders to all it would be detrimental to all involved, including the immigrants. I mean, imagine a scenario where millions of people suddenly arrived in Ireland. How would we accommodate this? So immigration has to be regulated so we have a manageable number of people. I do think our asylum system needs reforming. People keeping in limbo for a decade is just wrong. I'm not sure what the answer is. But what we have now isn't working.

LGBT rights are human rights. We all should have equal rights. This includes trans. Not sure why it wouldn't include that. If you're a human, you deserve rights.

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119748255#Comment_119748255

You don’t know what you’re talking about. The Chinese Communist Party is about as communist as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119748260#Comment_119748260

Inasmuch as they openly trade with capitalist countries?

Because the human rights abuses etc are all hallmarks of a good old fashioned traditional communist regime.

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119748261#Comment_119748261

Again, you’re revealing your own ignorance. Communist countries don’t have a monopoly on tyranny (ref: the Russian Federation, apartheid South Africa, virtually any colonial power throughout history). Authoritarianism isn’t exclusive to communism.

joseywhales

Is there a definition of a centrist beyond "does not identify with an ideological position"? And I think it includes the majority of people.

This is tangential but I often read threads and wonder "do people not realize that they are living in an age with the highest standard of living for the average person in the history of human existence?" Doesn't mean that there aren't huge problems but a bit of context wouldn't go astray.

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119748368#Comment_119748368

This is tangential but I often read threads and wonder "do people not realize that they are living in an age with the highest standard of living for the average person in the history of human existence?"

That’s fine for you if your life hasn’t been negatively impacted by the centrist neoliberal policies of the past thirty odd years but I doubt it’s much consolation for people forced to visit food banks, or those who can’t find housing, or those whose heating bills are flying through the roof.

Not everyone has it great, and those who don’t aren’t obliged to be grateful and think “well at least I’m not dying of polio” just to make you feel better when they’re putting a second jumper on this winter.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119748003#Comment_119748003

I've tried engaging with you but clearly all you're interested in doing is ranting without providing any sort of evidence whatsoever. There's simply not point in engaging with this any further.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119748260#Comment_119748260

Do you think China is a country that other countries should look to for examples in good governance?

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119748700#Comment_119748700

No, far from it.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119748709#Comment_119748709

Thanks

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119748282#Comment_119748282

I never said any of those things.

Let's just park it there, this is going nowhere fast.

Anyways, following attempted thread derailment (as sure as night follows day)... the people who "hate" centrists are usually brainless morons who have the hammer and sickle in their social media profiles, pretend that Mao Zedong was actually great, lionise the IRA, and are deeply misogynistic (but just from the "right" direction) as they absolutely just see women as sex objects (pretending this is enlightened sexual liberation) and will attack us if we don't say the "correct" things.

Very occasionally I see hate towards centrists from very far right maniacs, but nowhere near as much as the former.

In short though, people who "hate" centrists are idiots. I put "hate" in quotes because it's not valid, it's jealousy. They cannot handle people being more intelligent and critically thinking than them. It frustrates them that someone won't just stick to one side to make things easier for them... and it exposes their simplistic ways.

Ireland Simpsons Fans - full of those pillocks.

"It frustrates them that someone won't just stick to one side to make things easier for them"

Pretty much. They can't place such people into their good vs evil view of reality.

Life isn't a superhero movie.

CGI_Livia_Soprano

“They’re just mean because they’re just jealous you’re so much smarter than them.”

That’s the stuff you tell your crying children when they’re being picked on ffs. Delusional.

Why defend very far right maniacs and idiots with the hammer and sickle in their profiles, who admire Chairman Mao and endorse the IRA, Livia?

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749335#Comment_119749335

I have never done any of that. I denounced China earlier today and the IRA earlier this week (in a post you thanked).

I lean very heavily to the left but I’m not a Communist or a Tankie. However, I think anyone who won’t acknowledge that under-regulated economic markets through neoliberal centrist policies have lead to a dramatic drop in quality of life in the past thirty years need to have their heads examined. It’s not being a cool-headed rock of sense, it’s being a useful idiot.

xxxxxxl

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_with_Chinese_characteristics

But but not communists.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119748260#Comment_119748260

When they were more Communist they were accordingly more murderous and were by far the most murderous regime in history.

Communist States always end up as genocidal because the contradictions in it cannot be squared with reality so they end up killing because someone must be to blame when it goes wrong.

Not real Communists, that line will be repeated again and again where ever someone is reviewing a Communist party in power and how its jackboot was rammed down on people

osarusan

There's a certain cohort of posters on here fairly laughably claiming to be centrist when their posting history suggests something very different.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119750278#Comment_119750278

Communism is interesting to watch not being crass. But why don't the old lefties that love it so much not move to these places. They seem to inhabit the west. Anyone under communism wanted out. Russians too are not fleeing to communists states there trying to get to the west.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119750285#Comment_119750285

Like whom?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119750305#Comment_119750305

I don’t think it’s fair to name names, but there have been a few eyebrow raisers.

I didn’t want to say it because I really don’t think it matters one way or the other to the person who sees themselves as whatever, be it centrist, liberal, conservative, right, left or whatever you’re having yourself (not you personally, just individuals in general).

It’s just other people don’t see people the same way they see themselves is all, but pointing that out is unlikely to change the person’s view of themselves, especially in the online space where another person’s perspective is of lesser value to them than people they actually know and care about their opinions of them.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119750328#Comment_119750328

lol. I'm happy to be put on the made up list most will be. But then others will look and actually conclude differently. hmm "lesser Value" that's an interesting one like those of the centre dismissed as Right wing. Making them less of a value.

@osarusan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119750328#Comment_119750328

It's a sneaky tactic. @osarusan could address the posters in question individually with a simple "you're not in the centre, you're right-wing".

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119750334#Comment_119750334

Of course you are because it would feed into your persecution complex. I don’t have a made-up list because it’s utterly pointless. When I said eyebrow raisers that’s exactly what I meant - upon reading their own self-identification as centrists, their own definition of what they perceive to be centrist traits or values seems to be just a list of their views on various topics. It doesn’t matter that I think there’s something off about their self-identification. They’re not going to care one way or the other for how I, an anonymous individual to them, identifies them.

Centrists are also called Moderates. I don’t expect you’ll just take my word for it, you probably have your own ideas, but here the terms are as they relate to politics -

Note that I didn’t say anything about a person being of lesser value, regardless of their politics, I said their perspective is of lesser value, and it is, to someone who does not share their perspective.

I certainly can’t be accused of dismissing anyone who sees themselves as a centrist as right-wing, because being right-wing conservative myself, I don’t think the person accusing them of being right-wing knows what being right-wing means, and I’d say the same of anyone accusing self-identifying centrists of being left-wing liberals, etc. It’s simply a convenient way of labelling anyone who doesn’t share their opinions as being something which they perceive to be negative, or in your case, a badge of honour. Not giving someone the satisfaction, is not the same as dismissing them, it’s dismissing their opinions as being of no value.

I don’t have any beef with centrists other than it’s impossible to know where they stand on any given topic. But I’d say the same of anyone who it was impossible to know where they stand on any given topic. They may not necessarily be centrists, but they’re equally frustrating because it’s impossible to know what they stand for.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119750377#Comment_119750377

Wrong I actually listen to and engage to people from the left all the time. Now whether the opinion is valid that's another issue. Why mention persecution complex ? That's emotionally marking something. As for being frustrated maybe listen to those that are saying what they say. Most if not all have right and left leanings. There is a theme also. Social issues that can be solved within reason. There is no magic money tree.

Take me for example big on the issue climate change and how badly it's handled by the greens. I would stop grants open up the closed shop that is the one stop shops. Remove all vat and taxes on materials for implementing retrofitting. Bring all possible stock up to a realistic level. Ban the Dail bar ban any travel expenses. Ban members of the Dail who own property from voting on same issues.

I would immediately remove all Government funding of NGO's If they are needed fund from taxation or let them survive on there own.

Tones of issues and low hanging fruit.

But yeah I'm Right wing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749080#Comment_119749080

Yes, why else such anger. I mean devils' advocates and bothsides-ers are obnoxious for sure - just being contrarian, but being a centrist is not someone who just both-sides everything, sometimes they will have a view one way, sometimes another way, but the point is: they are capable of standing back and looking at all the arguments (when necessary, obviously it isn't always) and hearing people out. And most of all, not getting extremely upset when someone just politely disagrees with them.

I remember seeing one such clown sarcastically say "Oh so reasonable" in response to a very civil, articulate, balanced response with plenty of back-up. Absolutely raging at them being reasonable, because all he could do was lash out. 😆

It's a lack of sophistication and emotional intelligence. They don't want to bother with nuance or complexity or context. Too much work.

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119750377#Comment_119750377

I don’t agree with right-wing liberals/neoliberals but I respect them for “owning” their views.

Centrists will never do that. They firmly believe that the current right-wing neoliberal so-called consensus is the default and any deviation from that is radical. And that is their only belief.

They’re incapable of developing philosophies apart from the same one everyone in the west has been exposed to for the past thirty odd years.

They are the kind of people who look past mass inequality, heat banks, and families living in hotels for months on end towards luxurious knick-knacks like iPhones and defend the status quo by exclaiming “look how good we have it, how could we possibly do any better?”

Then they console themselves by imagining that their opponents are jealous of how smart they are.

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119748208#Comment_119748208

I would identify as centrist as I don't subscribe to any particular left / right idealology. For me, as a centrist, I would support having a strong welfare state where those in genuine need are adequately supported. I would support high disability payments for example. I also would support high jobseekers payments initially, payments that are tapered down over time to discourage people abusing the system. I would also support the establishment of a living wage that is index linked to protect low paid workers. Conversely, I would support some aspects of market deregulation. But I would temper that point in that I support regulation of essential industry such as energy provision. My position on immigration would be that we need to tighten our position on immigration in this country as we don't have the infrastructure to support the level of population growth that we're experiencing. We should end direct provision but to do so we need to be more efficient in processing asylum applications. And have a cap on the number of asylum seekers that we can accept per year. As for LGBT issues, my position on that is simple. Live and let live. Zero issue with LGBT people. The should be afforded equal rights to their hetero peers. And equal responsibilities. Simple. Those positions may make me right wing in your eyes but I believe them to be centrist.

Where do I fall on the spectrum I wonder?

The dole should be kept the same or be higher but drop by 20% every year you're in it. Social housing should only be given for five years. After that, big dorms and basic meals. This wouldn't apply to disabled people.

LGBT people should have all the rights of everyone else. Discussing which rights should be given to certain people is pretty absurd. But they shouldn't be competing in sports where a life of testosterone gives them an innate advantage, and a transgender person who still has a penis should not be getting naked in a changing room with women and girls. These aren't rights, they're rules. Go change in the bathroom.

In America, guns should be illegal, and teachers should be allowed to carry guns while they are still legal.

Ireland should have laws like some of those American states where you can kill anyone robbing your house. Shooting them in the back or driving over them as they escape should be legal if they're still on your property.

Violent offenders should be given one chance but after that, a minimum of 20 years in a jail on an island. The minimum age for being treated as an adult for this sort of crime should be 16. I seriously don't understand why we don't have hellhole prisons in the Atlantic that put the fear of God into Ireland's violent youth. The point isn't rehabilitation, it's removing them from society.

Non-violent criminals should be rehabilitated in our current or Scandinavian style prisons.

People on benefits and social housing should lose their benefits if their kids are violent offenders. If the state can't stop them, let their families stop them. Having yet another kid that you aren't going to bother raising should incur some risk.

I think weed is a deceptively harmful drug but I think drugs should be legal. Resources should be spent on rehabilitation.

Non-EU Immigration should be points based. Asylum should be available. Marriage to an Irish citizen should give automatic residency and working rights. Far too many Irish people stuck abroad because their husbands or wives can't move to Ireland.

The Irish language should not have exams, and should instead be taught in the same way ESL is taught, with a heavy emphasis on speaking and role play etc. The requirement to study an extra language to get into university should be removed if it hasn't been already. Studying English plus two languages is an obscene mental load on students, and the three take up nearly half your subjects in the leaving.

Teachers should be paid more. Students should be easy to expel.

An EU army sounds fine and I think Ireland should play a part.

One-party / No-party states are in theory the best form of democracy and are closest to what the Greeks invented. Every politician should be an independent and should campaign on their personal views, not some party's.

Housing should only be purchasable by residents. The government should build houses. Dublin should behave like every other capital city and allow skyscrapers. I live in a moderately-sized building that I don't think is particularly tall, and it's 20 metres taller than any building in Ireland.