Winter 21/22 Eviction Ban (was: And just like that, FFFG lose 298000 votes))

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301059#Comment_120301059

I dont think many regular home owners get how relevant attacks on landlord property rights are to them. They see landlords as rich fat cats that are nothing to do with them. For most homeowners, an extension to the ban is irrelevant - they have bigger things to worry about and its not impacting them directly (yet). The fact that the erosion of property rights in general is taking place "in the interest of the common good" and this could one day impact on how they want to use their property, kind of slips past them.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301551#Comment_120301551

I think most home owners (at least all the ones I know anyway) are starting to realize that this will impact them too if its let go on. Any home owners who is happy with the erosion of property rights, whoever they be to at the moment, is their own worst enemy.

bluedex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301576#Comment_120301576

Yes, I think the penny might finally be dropping with a lot of people, although in a very low gravity way.

A bit like Brexit and the people who voted for it...

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120284085#Comment_120284085

Great idea. 90% CGT and no more moratoriums.

Then all the poor downtrodden perpetual victim landlords can escape their nightmares. They will get part of the equity value of the property (outstanding up to the amount they paid) 100% tax free (i.e whatever their tenant has paid off their capital for them for free) and also generously benefit from 10% of the capital increase since then.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301647#Comment_120301647

I hope so... That penny is start dropping as it will impact any homeowner.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302375#Comment_120302375

Property rights were unaffected, or barely and temporarily affected. Tenants rights were however increased for that time.

The Spider

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301647#Comment_120301647

Yeah I know everyone I’ve spoken to thinks the ban was a terrible idea and they’re not landlords, people are very aware of where this could lead in terms of property rights, have yet to come across anyone who own their own property in favour.

dennis72

The part privatisation of the rental market going unchallenged to address homeless crisis will open door for all private property to be used in a similar way to ease housing for the greater good.

Single and elderly most likely targeted

Property rights to be downgraded with higher taxes for disposal on the way.

Sell and rent from property funds who are the new untouchables.

bluedex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120308051#Comment_120308051

Do you mean the part nationalisation of the private rental market? Sorry for being pedantic but I totally agree with you.

On another note, I see there's still the odd "I want everything, for nothing" posting on here for whom the penny hasn't yet dropped, despite all the evidence. It's a microcosm of large elements of Irish society: some people are so entrenched in their hatred of private property owners renting property, that they'll always refuse to see logic.

The Spider

Looks like the challengers to the ban are lining up, said it before, the only reason they got away with it before was because it was supposedly time limited, but now calls for another 12 months and another after that means this is going to court, part of me wants it to, so we can all find out once and for all if it’s legal, if it goes against it, there can never be a ban again.

High risk strategy extending, if it wasn’t extended the gov may have been able to try sneak in another one around Christmas, if it’s thrown out not a chance, conversely if it passes expect to see the rental market collapse, as landlords sell up when they get their properties back rather than relet.

ingo1984

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310230#Comment_120310230

It will be defeated in court if they can justify it is for the 'common good'. Be wasting their time and money lodging a case. Same reason why it wasn't challenged back in October despite threats from various property rights/landlord groups. In saying that I don't think it will be extended anyway. Though at this stage I've no faith the government know what they'll do either. Wait and see on Tuesday. God forbid they'll come out with state sponsored hotel accommodation for all!

dennis72

I spoke to a solicitor less than 1 yr about taking a rented property back for my own use I cited the possibility of a a permanent eviction ban.

Answer was this could never happen there would be riots on the streets

Took it back.

I don't trust the govt there an anti private property movement in action and its a vote winner.

Sell while you can unless it's your home

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310415#Comment_120310415

It's unlikely it would be totally defeated. It quite likely specific exclusions would be allowed. The state cannot put onto ordinary individual citizens it's own obligations.

Remember such a case was won back in the 1980's yes there can be restrictions for the common good but that should not necessarily put undue hardship on an individual.

https://ie.vlex.com/vid/blake-v-attorney-general-804882601

It is even questionable that even if it was defeated that the plaintiffs would have a y legal costs. Precedents in cases like this is that the courts put all cost onto the state as it's a test case.

However no court will accept that where people need a house for there own or for family needs that they cannot have it back. There is already an acceptance of that by Government

As well it's likely any court would allow undue hardship to be put on any individual where there is only 1-2 properties involved. I suspect the goveryof ow that as well.

The ban will not be extended IMO and if it is it will be defeated in Court. It likely any case will involve a ruling on rent control as well as it will probably come up in the case.

pc7

Regardless of the ban staying or going, if you have tenants served currently or play too you’ll be lucky to get them out!

ingo1984

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120313262#Comment_120313262

Was just thinking that today. Serve them notice of eviction, come eviction day, I'm not going anywhere. What can you do? Take them to court? How long would that take? Proper sh!t storm coming either way.

Security companies are now recommending installing smart security locks/security door. Means the tenant cannot change the lock and allows the landlord to limit access to the property after the notice period has expired. They would probably aid in getting rid of overholding tenants once valid notice is served

pc7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120314049#Comment_120314049

I’d like to see how the RTB would view that, but would be brilliant if could be a tool landlords could use when getting rode

Bass Reeves

Interesting article about reasons LL are leaving. General consensus is regulation, taxation and risk of problems tenants with strong house prices being an enabler.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/0304/1360043-explainer-why-are-private-landlords-selling-up/

Interesting is non institutional LL provides 94% of rental properties. Finally 43k units have left the system since 2016.

Grumpypants

It's bonkers how this is taking so long to fix.

It's the same three issues that are driving the exit. Evictions are taking ages, tax is too high, contracts are too short.

Landlords take 18 months to evict an at fault tenant? Just take the UK system (god knows we take so many if their other laws). Low €50 fee to take a court case. Judge sees if the tenant has not paid rent for a month or more, and unless they are up to date then they get two weeks, then court appointed officers arrive to kick them out and change the locks. Most of the time the only way to evict is if you sell so it forces landlords into a corner.

Short contracts? there is no reason that you should not have a 5-10 year rental contract. The law is there, this used to be the norm in Ireland. Landlords favour the 12 months due to the above eviction risks. But if you take away the risk of not being able to evict non paying tenants most would be delighted with a 10 year contract. If you have a 10 year contract you stay there for ten years as long as you pay the rent. The landlord can't sell it.

Tax- set a tax free limit. €12k, if you charge 1 euro more, you pay tax on the full €12,001. That would boost most rental income by hundreds a month making it a viable option again.

Rent prices - see above. If you charge 12k a year then the rent is only 1k a month. For most people that is a significant saving of hundreds a month, creating an affordable rental market that has stable pricing.

You get stable affordable predictable rent prices, stable sustainable rental income, stable secure long term contracts where tenants feel like it's their home. No rent pressure zones, no eviction bans, no more stumbling from one housing crisis to the next homeless crisis.

Bass Reeves

Another prediction of a couple of US seem to be going to come through. Lots of units used as aerBnB's will not come back into the residential rental market. Owners will leave them vacant

https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/nine-out-of-10-airbnb-hosts-would-rather-leave-their-units-idle-than-rent-it-out-to-long-term-tenants-survey-finds-42368368.html

its seem it more likely that this will bring only 1-2 k units back into the rental market not 12k

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120314221#Comment_120314221

I'd have the same fear, that's why I won't be the first to install one. They did say once the eviction process is detailed in the lease, valid notice is served and the tenant is given sufficient notice to appeal that they can be used.

AmberGold

Interesting article regarding proposed changes to eviction rules and taxation in todays independent. Removal of the clause regarding sale or moving in a family member coupled with lower taxes for landlords. Two year moratorium for existing landlords.

I’d expect a ton of evictions in this two year period.

They couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery.

Grumpypants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120316009#Comment_120316009

Trapped behind a paywall unfortunately so couldn't dig into it.

But The striping of the right to live in your own house or sell your own house just shows how stupid this country is.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120316867#Comment_120316867

I wonder is there any other country in Europe as stupid when it comes to try and give the rights of your assets to a stranger while paying through your nose for that asset.

I feel this will make Ireland a highly unpopular country.

herbalplants

https://www.businesspost.ie/news/ires-reit-drops-plans-to-build-400-apartments-in-sandyford/

Not great news

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120317241#Comment_120317241

If you own a property, then it is you and you alone who gives possession of that property to someone. If you don't understand the implications of that, then that is your own fault. Ignorance of the law is never an excuse.

Many countries afford stronger protections to tenants. Ireland gives a massive benefit to landlords in allowing them to evict a tenant mid-lease in order to sell or to give it to a family member. In most countries that would not be allowed.

Giving a lower rate of tax to landlords would be completely retarded. So I don't put it past the government to do so. All it will do is try to support and increase house prices.

..

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120318993#Comment_120318993

Landlords obviously dont feel they are being protected in ireland and dont feel they are getting a fair deal.

It doesnt really matter what the truth is. It only matters what they think.

And if they think its time to get out. Thats what they will do.

I dont see how, if the eviction ban ends at the end of the month, that there wont be mass eviction notices issued in April.

If landlords get a chance to get out now, they will take it.

The housing problem isnt anywhere near fixed and will likley be amplified by continued refugee immigration over the next few years, which means longer eviction bans will be on the way again.

Even if this one ends as planned.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319126#Comment_120319126

No, it doesn't matter what they think. If they don't want to do it, then nobody forces them to. It is a passive activity and not some vocation.

They should stop whinging. If it is that bad, let them sell up and leave. Nobody gives a sh1t if their specific name isn't on the deeds of that 2-bed in Mullingar any more.

Many of the same people have been whinging about the same things for years. And they'll still be whinging about them in 12 months. Because that is all they know. The moratorium which has been "preventing" them from selling will be gone. But most won't sell.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319157#Comment_120319157

Thats what I am saying.

If they want to sell. let them sell.

its their choice.

So it does matter what they think.

I think a lot of them will sell. And at least that will provide more purchase opportunities for those able to get a mortgage.

But for those in rented accom, prices may well rise further unfortunatley as rental stock converts to purchase stock.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319194#Comment_120319194

Any recent rush to the door, or upcoming rush to the door, is going to be driven largely by non-tax-compliant people who are worried that their tenants will be incentivised to cause trouble due to the tax credit.