Winter 21/22 Eviction Ban (was: And just like that, FFFG lose 298000 votes))

BlueSkyDreams · 10-04-2023 12:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460381#Comment_120460381

Sounds lile the tenant is in breach of the contract, since he is sub letting.

The Landlord isnt responible for the tenants subletting? Surely :)

herbalplants · 09-05-2023 6:09pm

Why people like that were renting privately in the first place! They should have been accommodated by the state a long time ago.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/pensioner-weeks-away-eviction-says-26872374

themoone · 09-05-2023 6:54pm

Well she seems to have always rented.

“I am someone who has always rented, usually in long-term arrangements. I have always paid my rent on time and have had excellent relationships with landlords. We have been at our current address for seven years, but our landlord now wants to sell the property,” Ms Walsh said.

In the Irish Times she says the landlord wants to sell the property but in the Mirror she talks about how "she could no longer pay the rent after she lost her job as an administrator for a language school during the pandemic. The couple was given a six months notice to quit the Dublin home she lived in by her landlord last November but that was stalled by the eviction ban, the Irish Mirror reports. So I am not sure if the notice is for selling or rent arrears.

She does not seem to be able to find something in Dublin but what about Sligo, Leitrim ... etc.

As usual details seem to be missing.

DownByTheGarden · 10-05-2023 7:47am

If you arent paying your full rent in your current rental then I dont see how it should come a surprise when that you cant get another rental at the same rent after you run the clock down, unless you move to a location you can actually afford.

You can go moaning to the media to try and get some sympathy, and it sems they will hep you by only publishing the part of the story that will tug at heart strings to help you. The media really should be putting ALL of the facts into an article. Otherwise its just an opinion piece.

StrawbsM · 10-05-2023 8:56am

"My husband had a very bad stroke. He lost his sight in half of each eye, lost the ability to read, he’s not steady on his feet, and he gets seizures. It’s a challenging situation."

Caring for somebody who has had a stroke isn’t easy. What usually happens before being discharged is that an occupational therapist in conjunction with the council (regardless of whether a property is private or social) will assess the living arrangements and adaptions would be made to the property as needed. Based on what the woman described above, her husband would need the bathroom adapted to a wet room and to reside downstairs or have a stair lift installed.

I’m very surprised that the council have said that they’d be put in a hostel if they present as homeless. As crass as it sounds, elderly people living in small council bungalows die often. If the Occupational therapist, social worker, hospital consultant team, public health nurse and GP have written their assessments then this man would be top of the priority list.

pc7 · 10-05-2023 10:01am

Think that's in an ideal world Strawbs, the whole systems seems overwhelmed and broken to be honest

StrawbsM · 10-05-2023 10:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120578276#Comment_120578276

It sure does and regardless of if their story is twisting the truth a bit, it’s not a position I’d like to see myself in at that age 😞

herbalplants · 10-05-2023 6:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120578341#Comment_120578341

Very sad story.

We may see more of these stories in 20 years, unless they start providing more social housing.

themoone · 11-05-2023 12:15pm

@StrawbsM Thanks for the info. I can see from the circumstances that finances may not be the only issue but a property that meets the needs of the husband. https://www.daft.ie/for-rent/house-11-the-village-moorhall-lodge-ardee-ardee-co-louth/4701274 I found this on daft and is in a retirement village so provides the wet room and presume that the rooms are wheelchair accessible. Rent is 1300Euro (not sure if that is within her budget but again I think her case is complex (special needs+ within a limited budget) while I think they might not be casting their net wide enough.

DownByTheGarden · 11-05-2023 12:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120582656#Comment_120582656

The state could easily pay that for them. They pay more for other people in need.

I think there should be more places like that for retired people in Ireland. Nice little developments within access of services and amenities that people could downsize to.

I guess the problem here is that this couple wnat to stay close to where they currently live.

BlueSkyDreams · 11-05-2023 12:33pm

The fact of the matter is that if you rent into retirement you are in serious trouble in Ireland.

People really should focus on purchasing a home ahead of retirement as it is the only form of housing security.

There is a huge ticking timebomb of people privately renting in their 50s and early 60s whom will not be able to stay in their property upon retirement because their pensions wont cover the rent.

Who has a pension that allows then to spend 2k a month on rent? plus bills and food.

Forget above discretional spending.

People on 6 figure salaries today wont be able to afford it when they retire, never mind the average paid worker.

There are 400% more people in their 50s privatley renting than there are in their 60s.

As those 50 somethings retire, they will require social housing supports at 4 x the rate we are currently managing and the stock of homes is not & will not be there in less than 10 years time.

When the 40 somethings of today retire, the problem will be magnified again as home ownership depletes through each generation.

If you dont own your home on retirement, be prepared to spend your days in a hostel or in social housing.

The inconvenient truth is that continued, uncapped non-contributory immigration will only amplify the problems we will face down very soon.

We really need to start planning for the future and moderate all of our governmental policies accordingly.

arctictree · 11-05-2023 3:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120582726#Comment_120582726

In my experience, most of the elderly who have that fate end up living in a granny flat of one of their kids.

BlueSkyDreams · 11-05-2023 3:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120583659#Comment_120583659

If they are lucky enough to have that option.

There will be many more people in that boat in the years to come, because the number of people retiring without home ownership is growing rapidly and the population demographic is bulked around the 35 to 55 year olds.

A perfect storm approaching as those age groups approach retirement.

Yurt2 · 14-05-2023 3:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120580321#Comment_120580321

There's no may about it. There will be many many thousands of people heading into retirement in precarious and unaffordable rental situations each year and this issue is only just making itself known.

The state broadly knows all this put is plugging its ears and closing its eyes. We need a massive state led affordable for purhcase, affordable rent and social housing building programme, and we need it yesterday. Immediate end of the state getting its chequebook out to buy units in the private sector. HAP needs to be sh*tcanned as a matter of priority. There'll be an element of shock therapy for a year or so, but rents need to be seriously recalibrated. Just on inspection of daft in my area, some of the rents landlords think extremely shoddy units can command is fantasy-land stuff. HAP is to the rental sector as EPO is to a Tour de France rider in the 90s.

We're sh*t out of options as a country. It's massive state-led housing construction programme or we hit a massive social wall in the next few years.

J_1980 · 14-05-2023 9:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120594769#Comment_120594769

Hap is a lot cheaper than building and renting out homes for a song.

400k property (these are 100sqm homes construction costs) is 16k pa in interest costs plus realistically 4k maintenance incl some sink fund —> 20k pa

Hap maybe 1200 per month of which government will take back 600 in tax. That’s less than 10k pa and immediately available.

people always forget why the government sold off all social housing. If private landlords cant make it work at sky high rents, imagine how costly this will be for a government run rental business.

there is also zero spare capacity in the building industry. And due to high marginal taxes most tradies rather do cash in hand refurbishments than working extra time on construction sites. Alle the incentives are just wrong in this country…

BlueSkyDreams · 14-05-2023 11:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120594998#Comment_120594998

The govt should have its own staffed construction teams. Those people wouldnt be off doing nixers as they would have a day job to do. Build homes.

Yes costs are prohibitive for building, but once the home is built the nominal rent paid by the social tenant can go towards the sinking fund/upkeep.

Social housing should be nominal rents, because it then isn't costing the tax payer anything, once the home is built.

But the homes should not be sold off unless the tenant can buy at market rate.

Keep the vast majority of council homes owned by the council, so that when the tenant leaves, there is housing stock available for the next wave of social tenants.

The hidden cost to the current model is the amount of rent being paid by the tax payer...

The govt is spending almost a billion euros a year on HAP and other rent subsidies! its mad money.

HAP is the tax payer paying to house people in homes the govt doesnt own. Its a cop out model.

And the kicker is that HAP drives up the rental cost in the private market.

Everyone renting privately is paying twice for rental accom.

Once for the social tenant next door to them on HAP, via their income taxes, and once for the HAP inflated property they live in themselves.

Mass scale building of council owned properties is needed in mixed developments.

No private housing should be used for social housing and then watch private rents fall to affordable levels.

The truth of the matter is that the tax payer, through HAP and other rental subsidies, is paying tax to keep their own private rent values artifically high!

herbalplants · 14-05-2023 12:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595245#Comment_120595245

Exactly, it always baffles me why the state doesn't have its own construction team? Why do they employ so many useless people yet they won't employ on permanent basis their own builders?

Same as medical card, why does the state pay private GP visits and why do they not build clinics and employ their own doctors who will get a salary from the state? Wouldn't that be more economical. Why are so many consultants paid by the state that cannot come with more economical solutions that work.

BlueSkyDreams · 14-05-2023 12:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595475#Comment_120595475

The govt should be answerable to medium & long term spending policy.

Because we only focus on the short term, the quick fix is always the priority.

Lets pay stupid rent for that new private apartment block in Blackrock and reduce our social housing numbers.

Doesnt matter that we have to kick them all out in 25 yrs time when our lease expires - we wont be here in the Dail to answer the question!

Doesnt matter how much it costs the tax payer to rent the block, or the fact that it inflates private rents for working people on average salaries trying to make ends meet in the area.

The govt should be forced to produce papers on how their money is spent and what the long term impact is projected to be.

Policies that are economically deficient in the medium and long term should be highlighted to all and potentially challenged in the courts.

J_1980 · 14-05-2023 3:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595475#Comment_120595475

Government spending is almost universally wasteful. Your average dwelling will cost 600k to build….

The Spider · 14-05-2023 6:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595475#Comment_120595475

Because building has always been cyclical, and developers have been able to hire and fire as needed as most of these guys are on day rates, or paid by the brick etc.

if they get proper civil servant style jobs, then when the cycle goes in the other direction, the government is left with a lot of staff on the books with no work. At least that’s the theory and how it’s always worked may bdd we different now.

Theres many services that the government use but dont set up their own government companies doing it, for instance the government uses a lot of design related work but doesnt have a government agency it’s outsourced. Same can be said about private car parking etc.

herbalplants · 14-05-2023 9:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596891#Comment_120596891

Well those builders wages would cost the state less even if the work is cyclical.

https://www.businesspost.ie/article/property-firm-made-e8m-leasing-homes-for-use-as-social-housing/

Nobody is accountable for how tax payers money is spent.

Emblematic · 14-05-2023 11:04pm

One of the reasons the tenant-in-situ programme doesn't work too well is that landlords tend to think that they will get better prices on the open market. Unlikely, of course, as local authorities tend to overpay for everything.

I'm not a supporter of his but Richard Boyd Barrett was saying in the Dail today that in cases where a landlord is selling, the council should have first refusal to purchase at market rates. Seemed to get a sympathetic hearing from Varadkar who said he would pass it on to the housing minister.

What do you you lot think? On the surface it seems to make a lot of sense.

BlueSkyDreams · 15-05-2023 12:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120597767#Comment_120597767

That was the intention of the govt tenant in situ scheme. To offer the home to the council at market rate.

Obviously, private bidders can bid higher than maket rate, but then so can the council.

The problem, predictably, appears to be that the councils dont have the staff to administrate these bids.

The govt didnt hire any new staff to process these acquisitions and i understand the housimg depts are already understaffed.

So even though they have limitless pockets, they probably wont purchase that many properties because they cant administrate the bid and sale at any form of scale.

15-05-2023 10:58am

HAP is easier for the state long run.

What's the maximum rate of HAP about 1250?

Over 50 years the state would pay out approx. 750,000 half of which they will get back in taxes, plus the half they will get back in taxes for the tenants contribution to the rent, plus property tax, plus RTB registration fees.

Cost to the state over 50 years is probably 300,000 or less if outside Dublin. The state has no maintenance costs, the state doesn't need to have people on staff to look after these properties, they don't have refurbishment costs every 25-30 years, they don't need to deal with social tenants complaints, they don't need to deal with antisocial tenants, the cost is spread out over 50 years. Sounds ideal for the government.

The first problem is there is not enough properties/landlords for tenants both private or HAP. The state do not want to get back in the property management game and the REITs/developers they were relying on don't want to hurt profit margins buy flooding the country with property/rentals.

The second problem is that there is no purpose built social housing, the state should be building low cost high density temporary accommodation for those that need it. They shouldn't be compeating with the private market making it more difficult for the working class to rent or buy property.

The third problem is there are too many dependent on state supports for housing for life. People need to be held more accountable for their own wellbeing. State supports should only be temporary for those that do not have a permanent disability.