Attempting to destroy famous paintings because fossil fuels

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119807005#Comment_119807005

Lol.

'In order to convince those who don't want to be convinced, climate scientists must be able to present the entirety of the argument in a single tweet'.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119807038#Comment_119807038

Politicians convince people Scientists present Data. I will ask one last time What % of the ice sheet was lost.

lumphammer2

I oppose all fanatics, cranks and extremists no matter what the cause ... and feel that the way such individuals act is more a reflection on themselves than their cause ... in the Middle East or parts of the USA it would be someone acting in an extreme way obo some Ayatollah or Mullah (ME) or putting horns and a furry cap on to storm the Capitol for Jesus Trump ... but in non-religious Europe it is someone with a warped take on climate change (in this case) or economics or whatever ... secular fanaticism replacing religion ... it all shows that there is something very wrong in such people's lives when they have nothing better to do and join a cult and act in a cultish manner ... and not all cults are religion as this crowd Just Stop Oil show ..

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119807043#Comment_119807043

All I have asked for is data behind a graph and then being labelled as not wanting to be convinced. It's clown world tbh.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119807043#Comment_119807043

it all shows that there is something very wrong in such people's lives 

You are absolutely correct in this bit here, 100%.

There is categorical, definitive proof that our societies mode of operation over the last several decades is having serious consequences for the health of the planet and if we continue in the same manner as we are doing, that it will result in destruction of entire ecosystems, displacement of millions of people and the suffering and deaths of many millions more.

This situation is influenced by, and backed up by the evidence of highly educated people working in the field of natural, environmental and other sciences.

Do you believe that these experts are incorrect in their findings and predictions? If yes, can you answer this. If there were experts who were able to convince you about an impending doom, whatever it was, are you saying that you would do nothing to try to initiate some meaningful conversation and action to prevent whatever prediction was made from coming to pass?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119807045#Comment_119807045

You've asked me to do your research for you. Keep asking, I ain't here to run around google for you.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119807058#Comment_119807058

So again we have no idea where the graph is from who did it and what data. I'm sorry but the onus is on those posting this to provide the data. If the ice shelf melted by 1% in this time period it's nothing. Would you move house if someone came up and said there is a 1% chance your house could flood. Sell up and leave immediately ?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119806994#Comment_119806994

Who is this We?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119807058#Comment_119807058

It’s not even that. He’s demanded you do his basic reading skills:

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119807071#Comment_119807071

If the person who came up to me was a structural engineer and they told me the house was likely to collapse, then absolutely I would. Would you not.

Your focus on the % value of the ice shows your incapacity to be involved in a meaningful conversation on this topic.

If there was a storage tank of lethal gas in a storage room, and you were told that 1% of the gas had escaped and as a consequence the room was likely close to a hazardous environment, would you ignore all warnings and say 'Pfft, it's only 1% of the tank'.

That is literally what is happening on a global level.

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119807038#Comment_119807038

“There are none so blind as those who will not see”

They don’t want to learn

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119807043#Comment_119807043

So you would have been very much against the “illegal” actions of nelson Mandela or those of Rosa Parks?

is that right?

they were terrible extremist upstarts - is that your position?

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119806677#Comment_119806677

Aye

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119807771#Comment_119807771

what are these green taxes that are crippling all of you that you people bang on about all the time? the tiny carbon tax that all parties are in favour of?

cnocbui

..

xxxxxxl

5.3 Basal mass balanceBecause Karlsson et al. (2021) provide a steady-state annual-average estimate of the BMB fields, we divide the BMBGF and BMBfriction fields by 365 to estimate daily average. This is a reasonable treatment of the BMBGF field, which does not have an annual cycle. The BMBfriction field does have a small annual cycle that matches the annual velocity cycle. However, when averaged over all of Greenland, this is only a ∼6 % variation (King et al., 2018), and Karlsson et al. (2021) found that basal melt rates are 5 % higher during the summer. Thus, the intra-annual changes are less than the uncertainty. The BMBVHD field varies significantly throughout the year, because it is proportional to surface runoff. We therefore generate our own BMBVHD for This Study.

................................

7 Uncertainty

We treat the three inputs to the total mass balance (surface mass balance, discharge, and basal mass balance, or SMB, D, and BMB) as independent when calculating the total error. This is a simplification – the RCM SMB and the BMBVHD from RCM runoff are related and D ice thickness and BMBVHD pressure gradients are related, and other terms may have dependencies. However, the two dominant IO terms, SMB inputs and D outputs, are independent on annual timescales, and for simplification we treat all terms as independent. We use Eq. (3) and standard error propagation for SMB, D, and BMB terms (i.e., the square root of the sum of the squares of the SMB plus D plus BMB error terms). For D, extra work is done to calculate uncertainty between the last Mankoff et al. (2020b) D data (up to 30 d old, with an error of ∼9 % or ∼45 Gt yr−1) and the forecasted now-plus-7 d D (see Sect. 7.1). Table 3 provides a summary of the uncertainty for each input.

7.1 DischargeThe D uncertainty is discussed in detail in Mankoff et al. (2020b), but the main uncertainties come from unknown ice thickness, the assumption of no vertical shear at fast-flowing marine-terminating outlet glaciers, and ice density of 917 kg m−3. Regional ice density can be significantly reduced by crevasses. For example, Mankoff et al. (2020c) identified a snow-covered crevasse field with 20 % crevasse density, meaning at that location regional firn density should be reduced by 20 %.

Temporally, D at daily resolution comes from ∼12 d observations upsampled to daily, and those ∼12 d resolution observations come from longer time period observations (Solgaard et al., 2021). Because the velocity method uses feature tracking, it is correct on average but misses variability within each sample period (e.g., Greene et al., 2020).

Spatially, discharge is estimated ∼5 km upstream from the grounding lines for ice velocities as low as 100 m yr−1. That ice accelerates toward the margin, but even ice flowing steadily at 1 km yr−1 would take 5 years before that mass is lost. However, at any given point in time, ice that had previously crossed the flux gate is calving or melting into the fjord. The discrepancy here between the flux gate estimated mass loss and the actual mass lost at the downstream terminus is only significant for glaciers that have had large velocity changes at some point in the recent past, large changes in ice thickness, or large changes in the location (retreat or advance) of the terminus. We do not consider SMB changes downstream of the flux gate, because the gates are temporally near the terminus for most of the ice that is fast-flowing, and the largest SMB uncertainty is at the ice sheet margin, where there are both mask issues and high topographic variability.

The forecasted D uncertainty is the average historical uncertainty plus a 1 % increase per day for the past projected and forecasted period.

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119808652#Comment_119808652

Wow you are so clever.

If you know what that means - why dont you sumarise it for us?

(and just remind us what the study is and who conducted it?)

cant wait!

PS its great to see you explaining stuff in simple terms (as though you understand it)

instead of just asking questions👍️

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119808951#Comment_119808951

If you go looking for an answer you find it simple really. They already said they don't know the ice thickness.

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119808977#Comment_119808977

I’m waiting - you haven’t a clue - have you? 😂🤣

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119809105#Comment_119809105

Did we read the part where they don't know the ice thickness and are modelling. If they stuck that under the title no one would read the walls of text. Some could easily ask could this model be completely inaccurate. Answer well yes.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119807771#Comment_119807771

Honestly, if someone asked me to post a meme showcasing the arguments against protecting the environment, I'd struggle to find better than this.

Trite dismissal of scientific fact using QANON/4Chan/Fox rhetoric.

I'd be embarrassed to think that this image makes my argument for me.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119809291#Comment_119809291

Were not being asked to protect the environment though are we. Greens want more windmills Battery banks electric cars that destroy said environment.

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119809119#Comment_119809119

Here I will start you off

The study is about..................

done by................................

they concluded that................

I disagree with it because.........

you remember plain english - its what people who understand stuff use to explain their point

instead of those who throw in obscure convaluted quotes - to show how clever they are - see below

but realy dont have the first idea😂

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119808652#Comment_119808652

We are all waiting?

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119809548#Comment_119809548

it's simple. They don't know the ice thickness then go on to tell you how much of that ice has disappeared.

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119809637#Comment_119809637

and how does your extensive quote prove that ????

you dont need to summarise it all - just something to show that you understand the extensive piece you produced on the statistical analysis of the study

🤣😂 Get ready folks - 😂This is going to be good🤣🤣 (remember plain english shows you understand)👍️

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119809916#Comment_119809916

Lol. If you cannot quantify something it cannot be measured.

This may help.

express or measure the quantity of.

"it is impossible to quantify the extent of the black economy

so 00000.1% or 100% has melted ?

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119803540#Comment_119803540

Just to see the science there, two most vocal an mentioned in several articles are Gianluca Grimalda (experimental economist) and Agisilaos Koulouris (PE teacher). But hey, they wore lab coats so there it is.

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119809933#Comment_119809933

🤣🤩😂🤣😅Not🤣 😂A😂🤣CLUE😂🤣

Ok

just explain this little piece - or what its purpose is.

"Temporally, D at daily resolution comes from ∼12 d observations upsampled to daily, and those ∼12 d resolution observations come from longer time period observations (Solgaard et al., 2021). Because the velocity method uses feature tracking, it is correct on average but misses variability within each sample period"

I cant wait - again🤗

Remember its from your post🤣

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119807086#Comment_119807086

Whole developing world as it seems. Like India and China for example. Throw in Bangladesh and one - two other neighbours and suddenly you talk about more than a half of world population. Or perhaps over 3/4 of the world population since the only people who are reasonably well off are being referenced as golden billion. That is 1 out of nearly 8.

So when they get on whole carbon and green agenda count me in.

If you think 1 out of 8 people can do enough work to carry on other 7, you need to have your head examined.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810055#Comment_119810055

I suggest contacting those that wrote it if there are any issues with what's written. 😀😁😂🤣😃😆

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810067#Comment_119810067

China has about 1/3rd the energy consumption per capita as the US. US is 12,000 kWH per capita, China is 4,000 kWh, India is 800 kWh.

Ireland is 5,100 KwH per capita. It's not india that needs to clean up its act first. It's us.

https://www.worlddata.info/europe/ireland/energy-consumption.php

Pa ElGrande

Watch as militant climate activist glues himself to talk show desk – before security lift it away & tip him to the floor

Mr de Graaf is a self-described “intersectional activist, campaigner and strategic advisor”.

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810114#Comment_119810114

🤣🤣😂Remember 🤣 Its 🤣 Not me making a fool of you 😂 You are the one pretending to understand stuff that you do not have a clue about.

This is a very important issue - You and me may not suffer the most

but we have to think of people other than ourselves. Many more will suffer if we dont take the problem seriously

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810170#Comment_119810170

r/ThereWasAnAttempt

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810182#Comment_119810182

How much did the sea rise then in this melt off ? How much of the ice melted 00000.1% or 100% Remember we don't know the thickness of the ice sheet.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810170#Comment_119810170

lol was it even glue did not look the type to want damaged skin. Probably hand sanitizer. 😀

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810210#Comment_119810210

Thats better - at least when you are asking stupid questionns you arent copying and pasting extracts and pretending that you understand them.

I forwarded links to you previously to explain your questions - Did you read them?

Just give me the main thing that you do not understand - ok two things about the climate crisis (that the consensus of science agree is happening)

and I will forward you the relevent (reliable) information or summarise it and provide a link - Hows that?

Count Dracula

Destroying art is far from radical.

Greenpeace are / were activists, chasing oil liners around the oceans takes cajones.

People who destroy art are Tossers and utterly pointless.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119809296#Comment_119809296

Did you ever hear of a term or concept called 'less harmful'?

What do you think that means? In real terms.

To stick with the smoker analogy used earlier, do you think the Dr advising the 60 a day smoker with developing cancer would tell him there's no point cutting down to ten a day, or would he tell him that even 59 a day would be an improvement?

No one is suggesting that it is possible to move from a state of concern to an absolute perfect scenario, so stop trying to pretend such a thing exists and that that's all you are waiting for.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810273#Comment_119810273

FFS. Nobody has destroyed art.

How is it you believe something was destroyed, which wasn't in the case of the art, and something isn't being destroyed, which is, in the case of the environment?

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810283#Comment_119810283

But the technology is not less harmful is it. It's dirty and environmentally destructive. Also made by burning coal in China. Less harmful is a relative term in this case. Now Nuclear if less harmful.

Count Dracula

Vandalising art is not an artform and whilst it highlights their activism it is not endearing, to me anyay.

I love the enviroment, throwing cans of spagetthi hoops on verneers wont change that.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810273#Comment_119810273

I'd be pissed if the Library of Alexandria had really been burned down because of a simple and unavoidable social grievance, so yeah.

Nobody bats an eyelid when Shell gets property damaged, they're faceless and worth hundreds of billions. That's true enough.

Art, etc. can be utterly irreplaceable, and utterly priceless. It can hurt to see it destroyed.

On the balance, climate activists would argue that the planet and the climate and the ecosystem equilibria are all irreplaceable and priceless.

Perhaps a few hundred years from now the only thing we will have left of old earth is the paintings of when it was blue and green. That would be apex tragedy. I'd trade all the works of art on earth to keep the earth alive.

Admittedly, we live in perhaps one of 'the dumbest timelines' and I'm not sure I have it in me to say most of these activists are truly the dumbest ones. Though I will say I cringe to see many of the humiliations they have brought upon themselves in the past few weeks. At least everyone is discussing the climate, and I think on the whole the world discourse has changed from 'are we causing this' to pressing forward and debating the agenda of making a green transition a reality, either way. Where I definitely detract from them is the idea that fossil fuels will be utterly banned or become a taboo technology etc. or any such consideration, there are far to many things produced and derived directly from the reaction of fuels (polymers, alloys, etc) that make up the built world.

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810297#Comment_119810297

Hay thats good

There were a few on here outraged at the damage to the glass covering the painting "the sunflowers" but seemingly didnt know or care that real sunflowers are going extinct.

Rain falls upward for some a these lads😵

xxxxxxl

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/10/221027093226.htm

In actual science very interesting.

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810332#Comment_119810332

I agree mostly

Can I just point out that we dont need to stop using fossil fuels for polymers lubricants ect.

we just need to stop burning them.

I admire the activists they have brought a lot of heat on themselves - they are braver than I am but they are fighting for a good cause and I agree with you they are being remarkibly effective in highlighting this crisis

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119806994#Comment_119806994

The same guy who gives us the above, then gives us this

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810356#Comment_119810356

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810411#Comment_119810411

What's wrong with the article ?

thegame983

If you glue your head to anything, art or otherwise, you waive your right to be taken seriously.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810164#Comment_119810164

Energy consumption only really matters when you realize what is the source to create said energy.

And no. It is not us. If we want to be petulant and go in some more details with your "energy consumption per capita" we are way far behind following countries: USA, UAE, Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, New Zealand, Luxembourg, Kuwait, Korea, Canada, Brunei, Bahrain as all of them are over twice of our consumption.

Sweden and Finland consumption is double of ours, Norway triple actually, and they are getting rid of their respectful ministers of green nonsense yet we are supposed to be the last one, retarded child left in the class? Thank you but no.

Iceland is over 3x more than USA and 7-8x more than ours. Make them lead by example, make them pay...

Btw you still failed to address point of what would happen if 7/8 of the people come even close to the current consumption of 1/8 (so called golden billion). Because they are heading that way.

Your arguing about us having to cut our consumption is moot since rest of the global population, 87.5% are on a way to significantly increase their consumption. Is this green movement another hidden colonialist agenda in disguise - how to keep 87.5% of people broke so the rest (us) can have it easier?