Attempting to destroy famous paintings because fossil fuels

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810418#Comment_119810418

How so? They did what they set out to do, get the topic on the news.

How about if you throw yourself in front of a horse, could that ever be taken seriously?

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810418#Comment_119810418

I would wager the same types wonder why glue does not stick to the inside of the container. Well until what ever solvent evaporates. 😁

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810417#Comment_119810417

Nothing.

It's your post, you spent last night complaining about there not being enough context about a post that showed (amongst other things) the volume of ice disappearing in recent times.

Here, you post a link with no explanation or detail. Why do you expect others to do what you won't do?

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810438#Comment_119810438

But there is context Hydrogen is the Green hopium. Maybe I should have said that ?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810396#Comment_119810396

To a point, or we need to burn them more sensibly. The crude is broken down into a lot of different things and none or few of those things can be produced in isolation, which is where your byproducts come by, like bunker fuel, etc.

The conundrum is if you want to produce lubricants, virgin plastics etc. you need a market for all the other products in the chain, etc. and most plastic sadly is not infinitely recyclable, the polymer chains break down.

In perpetuity it would be fine to run this process if there is sufficient a carbon sink for the waste. Forests etc. provide that. We exacerbated the problem though with explosive population growth and converting many natural forested areas into farmland and ranchland globally, which led to more demand for energy and cheap materials, etc.

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810451#Comment_119810451

Interesting - so it is not ecenomically feasable to use the same process just to get the products that we do not burn .

Maybe there are substitute products or alternative processing methods just to get the products that we do not burn from crude????

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810471#Comment_119810471

It's an extremely complex process you cannot for example guarantee the conversion processes. Why you get less Diesel from oil than petrol. Also see the Diesel/Gas part. Not all Crude is the same. You basically waste energy if you don't try and process everything out of it. Several thousand different hydrocarbon compounds in crude.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810471#Comment_119810471

There are bioplastics for example, and of course agriculturally derived oils from vegetables etc.

https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/bioplastics-industry

I haven't looked into it, but I'm sure it has its ups and downs.

Once we could replace every product on the list I think we could as a civilization, make the transition off fuels - but that's probably never going to be practical. At some point the largest demand for fuels will be from space industries. At the same time at that some point you could reasonably fly some vessels on less potent stuff like gasoline, if they have no need of taking off from the ground etc. and the ramifications of carbon exhaust to space would be astronomically negligible. By contrast to today though if the electric car transition happens fast, in the next 10 years etc. then some kind of bubble or burst or depression is going to happen in petrochemical derived products because there will be almost no demand for gas, or, gas will become so useless and cheap people just burn more of it to mine crypto on their gas powered GPU etc. and it's going to be a very disruptive few years where nobody is **** happy really.

Gasoline Power Plants are probably up next then. Burn the gas much more efficiently through turbines stacked to the gills with economizers and ****.

lumphammer2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119807274#Comment_119807274

Comparing Nelson Mandela and Rosa Parks to these tossers is an insult to these 2 great individuals .... they suffered real racism real hated real deprivation whereas these current vandals have it soft ... so soft they can go out and protest in a warped way instead of working ....

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119809105#Comment_119809105

I'm still waiting on your explanation of how to manufacture a wind turbine without the use of fossil fuels, so how about you stop asking other people to make efforts you wont, or more likely can't.

Speaking of fossil fuels, and apart from burning coal - do you stil have the Pajero, the R6 track bike, and the 15' speedboat?

To say your support for anti oil protesters seems a bit odd, given your love of things with hydrocarbon guzzling ICE engines and coal, is putting it mildly. Wind-up, comes to mind.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810821#Comment_119810821

I would not bother. I read a whole wall of text in a document and found buried they don't know the ice thickness. Almost like they were hoping no one read that far past the graph. They also will not tell us how much ice has melted as a percentage.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810821#Comment_119810821

To say your support for anti oil protesters seems a bit odd, given your love of things with hydrocarbon guzzling ICE engines and coal, is putting it mildly. Wind-up, comes to mind.

Ah here that’s like saying “I see you use Intel products, sure is hypocritical of you to condemn Israel for murdering 3 children” etc.

Acting like consumers have no room to speak out about the situation because of the ubiquity of the products seems a bit farce. oh I see you use the internet, gotcha, did you know the internet is not carbon neutral- evil laughter.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810827#Comment_119810827

only wanted to point out your comparison is absolutely bananas

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810847#Comment_119810847

If not for the fact that I so often see it from Hasbara accounts online, who are fond of issuing a laundry list of things people should have to boycott if they want to be critical of israel etc. (QED: talking points like this https://www.csmonitor.com/World/2014/0130/10-brands-you-ll-have-to-give-up-if-you-re-boycotting-Israel/Intel)

And here we see the same bananas level of discourse, expecting someone who agrees with the protest of the fossil fuel industry's practices (QED: record breaking profits reported during record period of inflation = exploitation of the commons) having to eschew themselves of things like, internal combustion engines, or get rid of everything in their home that contains a plastic, rubber, lubricant or sealant, etc.

So you are dead right to call up the bananas comparison. Here is a banana for scale: 🍌

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810851#Comment_119810851

theres was pretty bananas also to be fair

i couldn’t support them personally because they’re idiots. But absolutely it’s ludicrous to suggest that by using something that’s so important to most of us you therefore can’t be against it.

I think single use plastics for example are terrible. But, in most hotels and restaurants we use single use plastic piping bags & a lot of cling film.

Does that mean because I work in hotels and restaurants I can’t have a problem with plastic waste? I’ve never quite understood why being against something, no matter what that something is, you couldn’t be caught next or near it. If you don’t denounce [thing] you’re a hypocrite!

Yeah oil and plastic is bad for the earth, but not paying my bills and eating is bad for me. I need both to go to work & do my work, to make money, to pay live. I guess I’m a hypocrite!

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810709#Comment_119810709

Ok I see your confusion : I am not comparing their personal suffering

the comparison is with the establishment doing something blatantly unjust and wrong

in this case - continuing to use fossil fuels in a way that benefits them at a cost to future generations, birds and animal species , the planet, others . Yes?

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810821#Comment_119810821

I have a suggestion for you : why not put as much effort into researching the problems facing the planet as you are into researching me - even I don’t think that I’m that important 🤣🕺

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810824#Comment_119810824

Is this the document that you couldn’t explain?🤣😂

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810856#Comment_119810856

I guess that you were delighted to hear that we dont need fossil fuels and that switching to renewables - saves us money

robbiezero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810396#Comment_119810396

Any evidence for how remarkably effective they have been?

TooTired123

The lack of self awareness of these protestors and their supporters is staggering.

Their intent in these stunts is to generate huge publicity for a cause which doesn’t need any more publicity.

Outside of the socio economic group with which these protestors most identify with ( the vast majority of us) we are mildly concerned about the destruction of the planet. But we are far more concerned with real time, immediate issues, our health and our families health, money, relationships.

These actions by these groups aren’t creating awareness of climate change, they’re just inconveniencing the public, causing us hardship, costing us money.

So now the public hate them, especially as we all know that they are all from a background where finances are not a concern, and there’s plenty of free time to be a heroic climate change warrior.

And the governments are going to use this hatred to further stall on the changes needed to save the planet.

As I said, the lack of self awareness is staggering.

the kelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810821#Comment_119810821

Hypocrite might be a word that springs to mind “do as I say not as I do” lecturing all and sundry whilst putting more emissions into the air than many other posters combined defending social media attention whores ironically backed by an oil tycoon heiress.

You couldn’t make it up really, it kinda makes sense now that these actions could be backed by the oil industry actually to literally put more people to their side by pissing people off because that’s literally what’s happening but the lemmings defending them can’t see it.

the kelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811275#Comment_119811275

This 100%.

But unfortunately the lemmings defending them here can’t see that and their only response to it is “do you not believe in climate change” because the idea of nuance is far beyond them.

These morons are literally doing more harm than good unfortunately but hey they have their social media likes and follows cos literally that’s all that matters to them

cnocbui

I have put more effort into it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810824#Comment_119810824

I have put more effort into researching these issues than you have, that's pretty clear. Still waiting on that simple question of how you make a wind turbine without using fossil fuels, which you haven't answered yet, despite being asked twice previously.

Here's another simple question I'm sure your extensive research will have put the answer, straight on the tip of your tongue: What percentage of the Earth's heat budget comes from the forcing attributable to the anthropogenic CO2 in the atmosphere?

AckwelFoley

Thread has turned laughable unfortunately

One poster, with clearly a superiority complex remains patronising towards other posters more than insinuating that they're stupid, despite countless times having it explained to this idiot, they clearly understand the reason, but don't agree, yet, repeatedly doesn't accept this and considers them stupid in a classic attempt to stemroll their pretty ridiculous argument and stifle debate.

The irony is unbearable

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811012#Comment_119811012

Yes their aim was to draw attention to the situation and lots of peolpe are talking about it

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811275#Comment_119811275

Yes you are correct - most people are not aware of how serious a problem the climate crisis is because it is not in front of their face and affecting them that much right now.

I believe that you are also correct that there are many who just dont like their type and because they appear to be from a different socio economic group they dont like their message - There is a name for people like that.

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811434#Comment_119811434

Just remind us all again of the important significence of your manufacturing question and then I will endeavour to answer it. ok?

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811525#Comment_119811525

If you say his name three times you - you turn back into a limpet🤣😂

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811525#Comment_119811525

I think there's two of them, to be fair.

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811333#Comment_119811333

Ok I give up - you are right - Im actualy with you guys

I hate the protest because I hate their type - they are from upper classes - telling us what to do. Baaaa humbug

and Im sure I seen one of them using a car - so thats hypocracy as well!

and I secretly work for Shell- 🤩

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811434#Comment_119811434

How do you make a turbine without fuel is this threads version of define a woman.

Pointless screed.

Tonesjones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119812297#Comment_119812297

You can't. You need fossil fuels to manufacture, transport and assemble the parts.

Definition of a woman is an adult female.

There is no need to over complicate many things. It leads to stagnation and missed opportunities of progression and improvement.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119812313#Comment_119812313

Zzz

Nobody is making the argument that you can or need to make green tech without the precursor tech (carbon fuels) it’s a strawman argument.

Tonesjones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119812325#Comment_119812325

I was just answering the question. There is no argument to be had. Only reality

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119812338#Comment_119812338

But keep circling back to demand the answer from people? 😶 This was for @cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811591#Comment_119811591

It's an obvious desperate 'gotcha' of some description.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119812352#Comment_119812352

You are being rather lazy:

I said I am pro fossil fuels because there are no alternatives, to which your petrol head mate replied:

Im pretty sure You are just trolling and so I will probably leave you alone after this

"I'm pro fossil fuels because there are no alternatives"

how do you work this out?

I'm sure you have heard of the apocrophal wisdom of teaching someone to fish vs constantly feeding them, well I thought it would be educational for your mate to find the answers to the question himself, a far better learning experiance than asking others to supply an answer he would ignore anyway.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119812432#Comment_119812432

Leave the knives out of it, I could see why someone would find it weird someone describes themselves as "pro fossil fuel." It's an awfully strange descriptor that to mind just makes one think of people who 'roll coal' etc. to prove how much they love transferring money to OPEC+

And not as a descriptor for pragmatism or the acknowledgement of the inescapable applications of fuel products, even in the production of green(er) energy tech.

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119812432#Comment_119812432

You talking about me behind my back ?😅😵‍💫

you sneaky little devil 🤣😂

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811275#Comment_119811275

The lack of self awareness of these protestors and their supporters is staggering.

Their intent in these stunts is to generate huge publicity for a cause which doesn’t need any more publicity.

You do realize that the problem has exacerbated despite whatever public awareness has existed over the last x number of years. And it will continue to do so until politicians recognize that unless they enact meaningful legislation, they will be out of office. That is likely to happen because the public will ultimately demand something is done about these protesters and hopefully, (but unfortunately not guaranteed, or even likely) their action will be to less to the science the protesters are pointing to.

The protesters need to disrupt people and have it appear on social media and TV and wherever, it's literally their motive.

Anyway, your post reminded me of this quote.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119812432#Comment_119812432

I said I am pro fossil fuels because there are no alternatives,

So you think that the human race will be fcuked once the oil and coal runs out? Because fossil fuels availability as a resource running out is guaranteed.

Or do you not think that whatever direction society moves in and that point, could be prioritized on being introduced now?

Something like 50% of all car journeys in the western world are less than 3 miles, in the US its more like 70%. There absolutely are alternatives to what we are doing, the Netherlands literally have shown countries how to do it, to suggest that there are no alternatives is either deliberately or unintentionally ignorant.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119812764#Comment_119812764

You don’t seem to realize that if these attention grabbing stunts were intended to force the public to acknowledge the climate emergency, and in turn force the UK government to take more urgent action, that the first part of that plan has worked.

But not in the way they intended.

All it has done is cement in the minds of the public the idea that the protestors and the people who support them, you, for instance, consider themselves to be superior in every way (for example your Amazon image there) and are part of the elite who hold everyone else in contempt.

The UK government aren’t under any pressure therefore from the great unwashed, who are already only concerned about the economic situation and would welcome the reopening of the mines if they thought it would save them a few Bob.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119812829#Comment_119812829

You've spoken to the entire British public have you? Because if not, all you're doing is projecting your view on to what they think.

Your argument is the same used to tell railway workers they shouldn't strike for better pay while shareholders make massive profits.

Throughout history, change has frequently come about because of a growing consensus which eventually crossed a threshold to sway the majority of public opinion.

If you're looking at this entire topic, and what you're bringing to the table is only condemnation of those provoking the discussion then you're an obstacle to change. And that change is needed. Keeping your head in the sand, whether looking for oil or ignoring reality, is not going to fix the problems that are already impacting the human race but likely catastrophically so unless we change. Ignorance or distraction from that reality is part of the problem.

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119812829#Comment_119812829

Speak for yourself not everyone has an inferiority complex and thinks the protesters are trying to be "Superior to them in every way"

I consider them to be brave people who are putting themselves out in order to make the world better for us all

I hate continueing to draw from the past But 90% of the people felt that Rosa park was just looking for attention at the time - Sound familiar - Look how that turned out.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119812784#Comment_119812784

It's not about commuting, it's about industry, heavy transport, shipping, the chemical industry, plastics, air transport and so on. In another thread, I barely scratched the surface of the role hydrocarbons play in the manufacture of a wind turbine, and it's near mind boggling how vital they are. The peak oil/hydrocarbon catastrophism doesn't interest me because it's a myth that was well and truly exposed as fallacy.

This is from an article on peak oil written in 2008:

But in 1971, U.S. oil production peaked at 10 million barrels per day, and it has been dropping ever since, to a current level of 5 million barrels per day. "The peak oil theory looks at the U.S. experience and believes the world will peak also," explains Considine. "The biggest question is when."

See, peak oil was reached and now the US is stuffed - right? In 2021 the US was producing 16.6 million barrels per day.

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813081#Comment_119813081

Do you understand that it is the burning of fossil fuels that is the major problem?

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813101#Comment_119813101

No, I'm not a catastrophist - well not your sort of catastrophist , anyway.

mufflets2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813108#Comment_119813108

You are just not getting this.

The hydrocarbons used in manufacture is not a major issue - it is the BURNING of fossil fuels that is the problem.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813123#Comment_119813123

Cute.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813123#Comment_119813123

You do not get it as it seems. Hydrocarbons used in manufacture IS the burning of fossil fuels.