What’s your most controversial opinion? **Read OP** **Mod Note in Post #3372**

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103595#Comment_121103595

So we give the vote to the immature adults and don't give the vote to mature under 18s. Does that sit right with you?

Give a quick line or 2 on what you mean by maturity, just so we know we're talking about the same thing.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103667#Comment_121103667

Thays not good enough. 'Think like children' is too vague. Would you accept excluding votes from other groups because of how they might think? If i said people over 80 think like old people so they shouldn't vote, would you feel I've made a cogent argument? I wouldn't say it's a good enough argument to disenfranchise a whole group of people.

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103763#Comment_121103763

Yes. That sits absolutely fine with me.

The fact that there are an overwhelming amount of adults who do NOT have the maturity of a child and there are an overwhelming amount of children who DO have the maturity of a child, makes the situation much more appealing to me.

Maturity manifests itself in many ways, emotional maturity, intellectual maturity and physical maturity just to name a few. Life experience is also quite important.

When it comes to voting, I would like people to have the best ability possible to be able to decypher complex and adult issues. Not all adults can, but the majority will be able to.

When my daughter was 10, I decided what food she had for dinner. You think that she should have been allowed vote on complex issues and elections.

Again, adults who do not have proper congnisant abilities are the outliers, therefore their impact on the results of a vote are negligible.

Allowing children under 18 to vote would have a major effect on the results.

What is your view on the age of consent?

whisky_galore

If kids are allowed vote, then if they commit crimes, they should be tried as an adult. Seems fair by extension that kids be allowed to legally drink, smoke, marry, have sex, drive cars and fight in wars! Can't see anything wrong with that...

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103767#Comment_121103767

Thinking like children is not at all too vague.

Children are children. They are still developing and learning about the world.

Children are not disenfranchised because adults make decisions on their behalf.

If a child did not want to go to school, they shouldn't be able to decide that.

If a child wanted sweets for dinner, they shouldn't be allowed to decide that.

Children are children.

I can't repeat that often enough.

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103853#Comment_121103853

Hang on. You think that people shouldn't need to learn how to drive? They should just be allowed to if they want to? Thats a unique take.

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103853#Comment_121103853

Used to be the way. All you needed was an eye test and off you went on your provisional license.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103804#Comment_121103804

I don't have a stong opinion on the age of consent. I haven't really thought about it so no point giving an opinion.

That post is much more along the lines of what I was asking for. I don't agree with it. But it's a cogent argument. Fair play for being the first poster to so it.

I think its a huge step to exclude people from voting. What other groups should be excluded from voting? The over 80 are out of touch with young people, there aren't that many of them and some live in homes where carers decide what they eat for dinner. Some even have dementia (an excess of intellectual maturity). Probably wouldn't have a major effect on the overall result but I don't think we should disenfranchise them.

I disagree young people voting would have a major effect on the outcome. The 18-24 age group are the least reliable voters (about 30% from memory but open to correction). Younger people probably wouldn't vote in huge numbers. And the flippant argument that they would vote for free sweets and no homework doesn't pass the slightest scrutiny. Politicians would need to be elected by the electorate more broadly. They might have to consult with younger people and children's stakeholders groups if they had to worry about children as a genuine voter, not just a soundbite about being the future.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103831#Comment_121103831

You can make an argument for that if you want. I think direct physical harm to the individual is probably factored into these things. But if you think you can make that argument, then go for it.

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103915#Comment_121103915

Why would you pick the age of 10 then?

Surely that is excluding the under 10's.

And it is not a flippant argument to say that kids would vote for free sweets. Children shouldn't be concerned about politics at such a young age and most certainly shouldn't be burdened with the responsibility of making serious political choices.

If anything it is flippant to say they probably wouldn't vote in huge numbers.

Do you have children?

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103908#Comment_121103908

Ah ok. No need to learn how to drive and it's ok if you have a few pints with it if you live down the country.

lol

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103846#Comment_121103846

Repeating a tautology doesn't really help the case. It usually means the person can't actually explain what they mean.

If its about making decisions like what to eat for dinner and whether to do activities, should everyone in residential care who doesn’t control those things be excluded from voting?

I asked a question in the post you quoted. You didn't attempt to address it. Could you address it?

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103930#Comment_121103930

Sarcasm clearly went over your head.

timetogo1

Is this a thread about controversial opinions or voting age?

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103937#Comment_121103937

I based the assumption that they probably wouldn't vote in huge numbers on the fact that 18-24 year olds don't vote in huge numbers. Not an unreasonable assumption, in my opinion.

That’s another post you quoted without even attempting to address the questions in it. I'll answer your questions and it would be better if you tried to answer mine.

I picked the age of 10 (as you'll have seen in my post) because I said they should be able to vote from the time it's practically possible. I didn't set 10 as a hard line, just illustrative of when they could practically physically do it.

I wouldnt agree with an analogous argument that old people shouldn't be burdened with making long term decisions when they don't have a long term future and they should just focus on enjoying life instead. I think they should have the choice to vote.

I have a child. Why do you ask?

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103943#Comment_121103943

This question?

"If i said people over 80 think like old people so they shouldn't vote, would you feel I've made a cogent argument? I wouldn't say it's a good enough argument to disenfranchise a whole group of people."

I would say no. Because thinking like an old person isn't remotely the same as thinking like a child.

Children have not enough education and/or life experience to have the responsibility to vote.

The overwhelming majority of adults do. Sure, as I said, there may be a few outliers who don't, but the fact that the number is such a small percentage, doesn't greatly impact the result of a vote.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103982#Comment_121103982

It didn't. I just hoped you could articulate thevopinion you actually rather than sarcasm.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103986#Comment_121103986

Controversial opinions. I have the Controversial opinion that we shouldn't disenfranchise older or younger people based on age.

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103988#Comment_121103988

I find it very surprising that someone who has a child would have the mindset that you seem to have. Do you have fulltime responsibility for your child?

If you are talking about me not answering "If its about making decisions like what to eat for dinner and whether to do activities, should everyone in residential care who doesn’t control those things be excluded from voting?", I assumed you were being flippant as I thought it was perfectly clear that I was using the fact that adults making decisions for their children is in no way is disenfranchising them, not saying that because my daughter doesn't decide her menu, that is the reason she doesnt vote.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103993#Comment_121103993

That question and the one asking what other groups should be excluded from voting.

If old people are out of touch with the moden world and their life experience isn't relevant to the modern world (or the future world), then their experience isn't a positive factor. Still, I think they should have the right to vote.

You have to even touched on other points that are important in government such as the structure of government, parliamentary procedures and oversight. I'd argue most people don't really have a clue about how that works but we don't stop them voting. We give people the option to vote or not, no matter how much or how little they know about the system. Suddenly it becomes important to disenfranchise the under 18 in case they don't know enough. That doesn't sit right with me.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104029#Comment_121104029

Yes, I'm a normal dad in a family.

You brought up the examples of what to eat and what activities they do as examples. I presumed you meant if they can't be trusted to choose what to eat or do, then they shouldn't be trusted to vote. I'm using the same principle to another group and seeing if argument holds. Butbi misread your point. I agree choosing your child's menu doesn't disenfranchise them.no letting her vote disenfranchise them. So, what was your point?

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104138#Comment_121104138

My point is very simple.

The vast majority of children are not mature or educated enough to vote.

But yeah, I can see why you think yours is a controversial opinion.

I wouldn't like to live in a country where a 10 year olds are voting on important issues.

Children become adults far too soon as it is, let them enjoy their childhood.

Anyway, I think we have taken over this thread for far too long as it is.

I agree, you have a controversial opinion.

magicbastarder

you could have a situation where kids get to vote for their own TDs. i.e. 4 TDs in the dail specifically voted in by 10-18 year olds to represent them. elected on a platform of removing the VAT from computer games, abolishing homework, etc.

Cordell

removing the VAT from computer games

They will get my vote as well.

Mal-Adjusted

The truth is that people mature at different rates. You could have a seventeen year old who's way more mature and into politics beside a twentytwo year old who drinks and smokes hash all day. You can't possibly means test everyone in the country for voting competance so you pick an arbitrary age for cut-off, same with age of consent, drinking age, and a few others. There will always be a small number who fall outside that age limit and feel agrieved, but tough titti$.

JeffreyEpspeen

The apocryphal story about Kevin Kilbane turning down (meaningless) England schoolboy caps as if it means he wouldn't stick his ballbag in a Venus flytrap if he had a senior England cap dangled in front of him.

I'm old enough to remember how much of a joke figure he was when he played in the PL. He knew he wasn't remotely good enough to play for England even in the unlikely event he was called up for some training camp with a load of no marks, that's why he declared for us. Just like the rest of them.

JeffreyEpspeen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121094860#Comment_121094860

A lot of children that age are walking around dressed less conservatively than Jodie Foster in Taxi Driver. And that's sometimes when they're in the company of their parents. I think society is too far gone at this stage.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104175#Comment_121104175

Sound. Decent chat.

Given it's an after hours thread, I don't think we're allowed to just end the discussion amicably. Should one of us call the other a d1ckhead or something?

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104196#Comment_121104196

Could we? We don't set aside seats for any other age group or any demographic at all, for that matter. Why would we do it for young people?

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104361#Comment_121104361

Sure. So what should be the upper age limit for voting?