What’s your most controversial opinion? **Read OP** **Mod Note in Post #3372**

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121749745#Comment_121749745

true, there's already property tax, land tax and a bunch of other taxes. Vat on building materials is a bit of a piss-take. This countries government and policies can be very greedy at times. Especially when one considers each individual tax and parting of money that comes with each transaction in each step of building a home or otherwise.

Its basically a shakedown and "whatever you're doing, we want in on the action and we want a cut" .

The worst is when multiple tax hits occur. If a tax needs be, things should ONLY be taxed once and only once, not everytime it changes hands or is moved or used to build something. it gets really annoying.

rathfarnhamlad

If someone scrolls through their phone while sailing through a traffic light with pedestrians at green, kicking the car bodywork with steel toe capped boots, banging very hard on the windows, even throwing a bottle, is fair game and proper order (I didn't do the last one). Double bonus points if it's a brand new high-end car.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121748542#Comment_121748542

Yeah, maybe. So to bring the comment from a joke, back into reality; how many politicians stand on a platform of free alcohol, other drugs or sex, to get elected?

It's fine as a joke but doesn't really make a strong argument for anything, does it?

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752540#Comment_121752540

but thats the thing, as funny as it may be. it actually can stand a good argument. i'm very sure there would be many in favor of this actually existing. people feel like they're getting something in return for their vote, and not just some selfish political party's TD showing up at their door on election day offering a free lift down to the voting hall

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752610#Comment_121752610

OK, its an interesting thought experiment. They don't do it though. So to bring it back to the original idea that politicians would offer free sweets to children, its not really relevant.

It's a bit cynical but yu could consider everything in a party manifesto to be a bribe. Improving road infrastructure, or education could be considered a bribe but I don't see it like that. There are some instances of pre-election giveaways like reduced tax, which are pretty blatant attempts to attract certain voters. An example is the UK tory party wanted to abolish inheritance tax in their March budget to attract older, wealthier and home owning people to vote for them.

But it's a bit beside the point that young voters could be bought with sweets.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742112#Comment_121742112

I forgot to reply to this.

I think the answer to the question "why should young people get a vote?" Is basically the same answer to why anyone should have a vote. It's having an opportunity to get engaged with how the country is run and expressing it with a vote. Why should you have a vote? Serious question. Have you ever thought about it? The reasons young people should have a vote are probably the same but with some additions.

The basic ability to have a voice in how the country is run, just like everyone else, is the first and most basic answer.

Young people are an import stakeholder in the country. They engage with loads of government and private structures that affect their lives. Education is an obvious one but health, justice, transport, housing are some others.

Children participants in the economy and are reasonably big consumers. Granted the money is spent on their behalf but I can tell you children cost a fortune.

Engagement is an issue for me. For example, young people learn about government in school but can't actually put it into action until most of them have already left school. So teaching them about the political system alongside them being able to vote would probably increase engagement. A quick Google search (not claiming to have done much research) suggests that younger people who are given a vote albacore more politically interested and engaged

Young people will have to live with the consequences of elections for longer than older people. In this argument they have MORE at stake than older people. An example is the Brexit referendum in the UK.

I've been asking for the rationale for the status quo and haven't really gotten any great answers thst can be applied across the board to all voters, not just young people. Do you think there are great reasons to totally exclude all young people from voting?

kowloonkev

Just from my memory of school very few of the students even 15-18 had any interest in politics or having a discussion about it.

The majority percentage of people tend to vote the way their father's have done imo. I'd imagine that would be even greater should u18s have the vote.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752755#Comment_121752755

my idea was never offering sweets to kids, but whatever i don't mind as the premise is still the same. My initial offering was a kinder egg and a packet of crisps to secure their vote, however i will be so kind as to additional add a lucky bag to the mix! and maybe even stickers? kids love stickers. You say now its not relevant, but it was at the time of discussing it, as the conversation was about how to go about obtaining the kids demograph vote but without making anyone go through any sort of test as you expressed a desire to allow all to vote but was specific on requiring them to not have to go through any sort of test beforehand.

i don't consider everything in a parties manifesto to be a bribe, but some things specificly are, to reach certain demographs and in hopes of obtaining their vote. Improving infastructure i dont deem to be a bribe but rather more of a duty. education can be a bribe if its to raise teachers pay without actually contributing anything else. that would be to reach the demograph of people in teaching positions. There's better pay (a necessity) and then there's unneeded extra pay just for the sake of it. anything thats a necessitty isnt being sprouted as bribary by me, but rather a duty.

The example you just gave about reduced taxes to attract specefic demographs of people is a lovely example of what i was attempting to express.

As for the sweets thing it wouldnt be the first time, as i quote often see sweets or chocolates being used by some charities to solicit donations. Kids run up to them wanting some and are told they can have one or 2 if they donate, then kid runs back to the parent asking them.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752888#Comment_121752888

That's everyone's choice to vote however they want. Whether young or old. Is it a reason to deny ALL of them the right to vote in case some might do the same thing that lots of older people also do?

The point about them not being politically engaged is two-fold. One point is why would they engage when they don't have a voice in the discussion? Giving them a vote would make them more likely to engage with politics (which I see as a good thing)

And secondly, the ones who choose not to vote make absolutely no difference, same as older people who choose not to vote. The only difference is older people have a choice to vote or not and young people don't have a choice.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752944#Comment_121752944

Right. Kinder egg and a packet of crisps and a lucky bag, not sweets. And what would happen if a politician ran on a pledged to give out Kinder egg and a packet of crisps and a lucky bag. Would they be taken seriously by the rest of the electorate? I think they would be ridiculed and probably deselected by their party.

That's why it's a funny joke and a fun thought experiment, but totally irrelevant because it's not a realistic possibility. That's the point you're missing.

castletownman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752289#Comment_121752289

Shoe on the other foot, the amount of pedestrians I see glued to their phone whilst walking into oncoming traffic is astounding.

Virtually every day, I have to reverse a big, obvious post van down a lane next to the post office (because there is no turning room if I drive down), something that sticks out like a sore thumb. Yet every time, there is at least one zombie oblivious to the danger that just walks right behind me when reversing, often in my blind spot when the beeper and reverse cam intervenes.

So I wouldn't always blame driver error in fatal accidents.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121753281#Comment_121753281

No, the crisps would be given upon entering the booth, then after the vote is done, if their vote can be confirmed they get the rest of the additional stuff when they come back out. Its a very thoughtful premise and teaches kids about voting, aswell as it being a little day-out for them.

Parents may even like the idea too, and would be encouraged to bring their kids to the voting. after all its a free meal and a day out. and an activity that promotes looking into political things. it can be an educational experience like those tours that have free participatiene goodies at the end. kids love crisps!

also its realsticly possible to do something like this by the party in question getting in contact with the marketting department of some crisp brands and orgnizing something, as its also promoting the goods that are being handed out free. it's a win-win.

like honestly do you think a kid would rather get a free badge with the person they vote for on it? or a fun toy chocolate treats and packet of crisps? the lucky bag and crisps combo is the clear winner here. kids vote successfully secured, and some of the parents would love the idea. and its nice to actually get something back out of voting. something physical, instead of just a bunch of promises that may or may not happen.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121753665#Comment_121753665

Oh I get it. This isn't a funny joke or interesting thought experiment. I don't have any thoughts on it.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121753783#Comment_121753783

well actually its a bit of both. its quite a funny thing to consider, however can also be effective. Marketting often uses comedy and memes to successfully promote a product or cause. But at the same time it can be genuine. Picture this: the thing you said about other parties and people ridculing them for the idea, would this make it to newspapers and radio stations? what would your honest answer be?

any publicity is good publicity, and while the idea may initially be made fun of, its still spreading awareness

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121753887#Comment_121753887

OK. I really don't have any thoughts on the idea.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754428#Comment_121754428

no worries. for some adults (primarily single ones, or those without kids) i can imagine it not being their cup of tea.

Would you ever like to receive something (not bribery) but as a thank you for voting? some people sometimes say to me that they feel "used" when it comes to voting, and they never see or hear from certain political parties until its voting day, then usually its a scramble to get votes.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754957#Comment_121754957

No. I don’t want anything for voting. I take voting seriously.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121755087#Comment_121755087

Yes, and so should everyone else. Should people who don't take voting seriously, not be allowed to vote?

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121755112#Comment_121755112

Wha? Where did you get that from?

Yes is the answer. They should be allowed to vote.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121755171#Comment_121755171

i was just asking you a question based on your answer thats all, something you've been doing a bit in the thread. i did'nt get it from anywhere. was just asking a genuine question thats all.

But being given something for free, after voting can be them showing their appreciation for voting. and it doesnt mean you take the voting any less seriously. If they offered you a free gift after you've cast your vote, regardless on which party you voted for, would you turn your nose up to the free gift or gladly accept it?

i'm not accusing you of either of these things, just wanting to know which one you would rather do. at the end of the day a free gift is a free gift, and its nice to get something back out of it for once, even if the vote ends up being meaningless or a loss

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121755261#Comment_121755261

I have no time for the idea of gifts for voting. If people don't want to vote, then ideally they should just choose not to vote. If someone is engaged and interested in voting to influence how the country is run, they should vote. No other incentive needed.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121755324#Comment_121755324

maybe think of it as a token of appreciation or kind gesture, rather than as an incentive to vote

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121755356#Comment_121755356

Yeah. No interest.

scudzilla

I think that everybody should be limited to a maximum of 2 children, if they want more then they have to prove they have to prove they can support each one with NO help from Social Welfare.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121755405#Comment_121755405

i like that policy, infact 1 child only allowed unless parents are working and can provide for more than 1. having 2 kids is expensive

Cheddar Bob

For years I heard this thing about how Gay Byrne had called a competition winner whos daughter had happened to have died the night before, and he handled it with a unique sense of humanity and empathy.

I'd actually thought the whole thing was an urban legend, but I came across the clip on YouTube last night.

Alan Partridge would have had more tact tbh.

Dick phelan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121755405#Comment_121755405

Except we already have a below replacement birth rate which will cause serious issues in the future. We need people to have more children not less

teediddlyeye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121755863#Comment_121755863

No, we need to move away from an economic model that depends on everlasting population growth.

Dick phelan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121755876#Comment_121755876

Who will take care of the elderly and provide their pension?

cj maxx

We need to spend money on defence . Decent war ships , fighter jets , submarines . And a mandatory one year military service