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Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022 - Read OP

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    #572
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815545#Comment_119815545

    Calling for traveller babies to be murdered by sharks is incitement to violence but you are perfectly ok with that being published.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #573
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,387 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815545#Comment_119815545

    Using travelers as shark bait seems violent.



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    #574
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815615#Comment_119815615

    If someone says something obnoxious, intent is important.

    If the intent was to incite violence, then extant legislation can deal with this. If however, he says it for attention, to be obnoxious and offensive, then I do not believe he should have a criminal record nor be jailed.

    The court determined the latter, that he was simply being an obnoxious, childish person.

    Being obnoxious should never be grounds to be criminalised and jailed. People have the right to be offensive, if they so wish.

    I would rather police out on the street arresting murderers and rapists and violent people and so on. I don't want them policing obnoxious people on Twitter and people who set up silly Facebook pages for attention.

    Have I finally made my position clear? Okay, good.



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    #575
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,387 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815626#Comment_119815626

    Ah sure all the obnoxious tweets about #FirePelosi were just obnoxious until they weren’t.



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    #576
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815626#Comment_119815626

    The words themselves are the intent; "promote the use of knacker babies as sharkbait" - Its a clear incitement to hatred against travellers. It says a lot that you feel its ok to publish and you dismiss it so nonchalantly as just offensive. Its more than offensive. Why are you so intent on defending people promoting hate and murder?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #577
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815657#Comment_119815657

    I think you overlook other forms of societal punishment.

    He was humiliated publicly for his obnoxious behaviour. He likely will have suffered personal backlash and perhaps this event even impacted his work prospects.

    Society has ways of dealing with obnoxious people.

    Hate speech laws and policing language and throwing everyone in jail is not the way to go. It's highly regressive and causes more harm than good.



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    #578
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,329 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815393#Comment_119815393

    Never said they did.

    Quote, Eskiohunt:

    Nobody is saying that free speech is unlimited. Incitement to violence and so on, we know the rest. Your attempt at deflection, with that smelly red herring, has not gone unnoticed.

    Nor is it relevant to this specific piece of legislation.

    No red herring - just pointing out that there are scenarios in which you could place protection ahead of freedom of speech.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #579
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815711#Comment_119815711

    Society has worked perfectly well without these hate speech laws.

    They are nothing but regressive.

    They add no value whatsoever.



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    #580
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,387 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815732#Comment_119815732

    So sexuality is pretty subjective right?

    what protected categories are left? Do we go back to public excoriation of the gay community? Does the boss at work get to call them all F*ts etc, then?



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    #581
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,329 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815732#Comment_119815732

    Unchecked hate speech has led to terrorist attacks in London, New York, Paris, Berlin, Madrid, Oslo, Stockholm all in the last twenty years. Shootings in Orlando, Vegas. An insurrection in Washington DC. And attack on the husbad of a leading memebr of the US government in the last 48 hours. Murders of women in Iran and attacks on protestors in Dublin. This is "society working well"....??

    We're at the most devisive times that I personally can remember and you want to encourage it...?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #582
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815757#Comment_119815757

    If somebody called me that word, I'd think they were a twat and move on. I wouldn't call the police, accuse him of hate speech, and want him jailed.

    Employers and employees have a duty by law to provide a safe and healthy work environment. Therefore it is already accounted for under existing legislation.



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    #583
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,387 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815821#Comment_119815821

    But that’s against the employers free speech and you’re advocating for totalitarian free speech?

    Why should the employer be silenced under the law to not harass you in your place of work for your sexual preferences? Why should they not be allowed to harass you in the workplace for that subjective personal decision?



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    #584
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815827#Comment_119815827

    Nobody has said that free speech is unlimited.

    Stop making things up.



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    #585
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815671#Comment_119815671

    Why are you so keen to deny and dismiss calls for murder of traveller babies? Why are you so keen to pretend incitement to hatred isnt a problem?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #586
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815732#Comment_119815732

    Thats bullshit and you know it. As a gay man you are protected by such laws - You cant be sacked, fired, harassed, threatened because of them. It's absolute drivel and nonsense to suggest there is no value.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #587
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,387 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815856#Comment_119815856

    “

    Hate speech laws and policing language and throwing everyone in jail is not the way to go. It's highly regressive and causes more harm than good.”

    So when the boss goes after the gays with his language throw him in jail though? Sexuality is subjective?



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    #588
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,329 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Of course, scoiety also worked well back in the ealry 30s in Germany.

    "Who needs the anti hate speech laws? Sure arent the Jews fine - no one's trying to hurt them...."

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #589
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815888#Comment_119815888

    I already answered that:

    Employers and employees have a duty by law to provide a safe and healthy work environment. Therefore it is already accounted for under existing legislation.

    Nobody is saying anyone can do and say what they want a la carte, without consequence.

    What we're saying is that existing laws already handle such questions.

    This new raft of hate speech legislation is superfluous at best and regressive at worst.



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    #590
    Tonesjones
    Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815908#Comment_119815908

    If only Helen of Meath was there. She could have stopped nazis posting mean things on twitter



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    #591
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,387 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815914#Comment_119815914

    Clearly not if your one can incite violence against travelers.

    I find it amusing the same laws that protect you and your life choices today would have been called regressive by your upstream generation.



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    #592
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815926#Comment_119815926

    I believe the right to be offensive and obnoxious is more important than the rights of some people to take offense and censor and jail anyone with whom they disagree.

    I do not believe that the weaponization of legislation in this area is justified.

    Nobody has a right not to be offended.



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    #593
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,387 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815946#Comment_119815946

    So you believe your boss has the right to be offensive and obnoxious to you about having sex with other men then, or your personal sexual preferences, religion and gender, yes?



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    #594
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815946#Comment_119815946

    Why are you downplaying calls for traveller babies to be murdered by sharks?

    Why do you support calls Michael McGraths calls for an AIDS blitzkrieg

    "National Socialist Party: Smash AIDS Blitzkrieg":

    In Ireland, AIDS is being spread amongst all normal people by the Gay AIDS spreaders and the Junkies. The Government is afraid to tell you the truth. Thousands in Ireland are infected — hundreds of AIDS deaths have been covered up and the number dying will double every six months.

    Thanks to Queers, Junkies and Negroes visiting here, all of you are now at risk from the AIDS Black Death, right down to the pregnant women ... and a baby can be born with AIDS!!! Horrific. AIDS is as deadly as nuclear radiation. Help us in the National Socialist Party to break the conspiracy of silence among the knee-jerk liberals in Government. Join us. Act Now. Only we will tell you the truth. Only we will save you and your family from this Scourge of God.

    Our "Smash AIDS Blitzkrieg" proposes: 1. Enforce the Law — ten years for homosexuals; 2. Enforce stringent AIDS-testing on all immigrants; 3. Intern all junkies, pushers etc., as Enemies of the People; 4. Daily testing of the Blood Bank for the AIDS virus; 5. Suspect Discos, Gay Bars, clubs, etc., to be burned down; 6. Execution of deliberate AIDS spreaders.

    We were (and are) the first to commence a smash AIDS blitz. We will shortly issue a Guide on AIDS — the Real truth, not politicians' lies! We will tell you how to protect yourself, family, friends. For this, the National Socialist Party requires volunteers, funds, help!

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #595
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,329 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815924#Comment_119815924

    Nazis have feelings too and deserve free speech, remember.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #596
    Tonesjones
    Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815995#Comment_119815995

    Twitter is a private company now. Free speech does not exist. Terms and conditions rule the day



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    #597
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,387 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119816013#Comment_119816013

    What does this have to do with hate speech legislation in Ireland?.



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    #598
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815995#Comment_119815995

    I know right - sure even the other day a poster on this site said it would have been good if every single Roma had been gassed instead of Jews. Only got away with a threadban. Sure free speech - lets just call for mass genocide of every Roma person on the planet. Thats ok cause free speech. Its not incitement to hatred, not calling for murder just "obnoxious"

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #599
    Tonesjones
    Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119816025#Comment_119816025

    Free speech example

    An unusual expression:

    "I know right" is an affirmative expression that is thought to have been popularised from its use in 2014 movie "Mean Girls"

    Very common in the United States. Not at all in Ireland.

    That's free speech.



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    #600
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119816068#Comment_119816068

    Ok. Thats nice. Any more

    image.png


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #601
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,387 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119816052#Comment_119816052

    Might have been 'popularized' by Mean Girls fans but certainly not coined by the writers of Mean Girls. Now that's some cultural appropriation bullshit right there.

    some mean girls meme.png



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