Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022 - Read OP

It again reminds me of what CS Lewis said about benevolence being the worst form of tyranny.

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

Lewis went further:

They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be ‘cured’ against one’s will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.

In other words, infantilising the population - to "protect" them - is as insulting as it is demeaning to liberty.

Those in power proselytizing to restrict freedoms "for our own good" should be held with deepest suspicion.

Star Bingo

Ah jeez, no words anyways I mean just look at him

Count Dracula

You are allowed say anything you like, it just better not be the truth or you will get berated for it.

Star Bingo

-you have to unbind yourself first in order to remove the gag I’ll say that much.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120560050#Comment_120560050

Don't knock Simon Harris, Helen mcentee was playing the role of a very strong female politician. With the pregnancy taking the momentum out of the much needed, divisive, rights-killing policies, Harris is doing a great job at filling helen's strong female politician boots.

jackboy

There will be a very small number of prosecutions out of this but they will be high profile, meaning the Gardai and government will get great credit and positive publicity. That will mean no need to tackle the far bigger problem of scum roaming the streets battering and abusing people.

Star Bingo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120560087#Comment_120560087

Yknow what it’s like that wasn’t there some kind of film?

Meet the Feebles. That’s what everyone is coming out here to do man, meet the feebles anything else is a bonus and I’m no tough guy by any means but come on.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120560153#Comment_120560153

If you like the legislation so much then why is their support tanking in the polls?

I would get a good laugh out of it if it weren't for Sinn Fein to reap all the rewards.

Star Bingo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120560254#Comment_120560254

Hey is Spartacus Autisticus a good username or what 😅 dunno fella, is a mystery sure let’s have a good laugh anyhow.

Ten of Swords

Threads merged

joggerjogger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120555620#Comment_120555620

I'm sorry you don't seem to understand and are pushing a fake narrative to suit the legitimacy of entrenching racism, sexism and xenophobia into law and please stop making false equivalency it's disingenuous and unhelpful

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120560148#Comment_120560148

The prosecutions won't really be the problem. The real issue is that forums for discussion will not permit their services to risk hosting speech that could be deemed hate under this legislation.

All debate, including legitimate debate will be chilled. This is the ultimate goal, since actual hate speech is already adequately legislated for.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120560995#Comment_120560995

I understand. There is no false equivalency, disinginenuousness, unhelpfulness, false narratives

Galwayguy35

Backed by SF, the Soc Dems and Labour.

So the alternative to the thought police bringing this in are even worse.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120561033#Comment_120561033

I would expect this entire subforum and others to be closed down if this legislation passes. A win for some no doubt.

tesla_newbie

It’s about engendering fear and fostering a climate of compliance, such laws might well completely proscribe political parties like the one led by Herman Kelly , their central plank is that immigration is the major issue facing the country, that could well constitute “ hate speech “ in a short time and it’s easy to see that their will be no shortage of folks ready and eager to report them

it’s incredibly damaging to democracy

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120565194#Comment_120565194

Also to @MrMusician18 :

Curious to know if people could give an example of something that would be ok (as in legal) now but banned under new legislation? Doesn't have to be something you believe in, just an idea.

I'm not in favour of the new law, but how this forum is (reasonably) moderated - in terms of content - so what could be posted that would cause trouble that wouldn't cause trouble now?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120565500#Comment_120565500

I think it's worth adding that besides any examples there is also the chilling effect of legislation such as this - and that effect can be worse than any single example we could cite.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120565622#Comment_120565622

True - if it affects one, it affects all - but again: hate speech is already banned, what's this changeing in terms of what you can actually say?

Hodger

This might of might have been mentioned on the thread or not, earlier in the week Leo was asked disregarding the results of the public consultation of the planned new laws against supposed " hate speech " .

https://twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1654113707004239872

Given that the result of this public consultation was mostly against; they have no real mandate for this given the consultation they carried out was mostly against rather then for.

Hodger

Earlier in the week Eoin O Broin from Sinn Fein was asked a straight forward question " what is a woman ? " and couldn,t give a straight forward answer.

https://twitter.com/Irish_WL/status/1653817604002250753

But if and when someone gives the straight forward answer a woman is an adult human female, does anyone think of this answer as supposed " hate speech " that should be punished by sanctions under law ?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120567519#Comment_120567519

No, because that's a good answer. Open to interpretation, without committing to any specific viewpoint - there's bound to be a trickier followup then.

Dammit, I'm.going to have to change my signature now.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120567352#Comment_120567352

A lot of the people in the public consultation engaged in hateful rants

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120567519#Comment_120567519

The shellshocked confused look on him when she first asks the question is something to behold.

Then you have Leo ignoring a consultation because he doesn't like the answer, yet will push the ones he does like the "citizens assembly" recommendations.

Democracy and representation - Irish style!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120567825#Comment_120567825

The thing is, it's a loaded question. The women asking him wanted a specific answer. And no matter what way he answers it, someone's going to scream at him. Adult human female, as you say, is the only way out and even then it's because you have to be deliberately vague.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120568083#Comment_120568083

No, it's a very simple question with a very simple answer.

One he was unable to answer, which was her point.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120568222#Comment_120568222

It's both. At about 40 seconds, she clearly says "What is a woman? An adult human female - say it: an adult human female" - meaning she's looking for a specific answer.

Now don't get me wrong: she IS right - the act doesn't add any protections - and you're right it's also a simple question with a simple answer (and the fact he can't simpl yanswer it is.... bizarre) but it's also loaded.

The thing is: what happens if he says it? He's terrified that someone jumps on him for being TERF or transphobic. But that's easily delt with because the answer is vague enough to exclude no one.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120568378#Comment_120568378

You've hit on of the concerns many people have with the proposed legislation.

In this case an individual who is part of the process of introducing this law is unable to give a simple answer to a simple question, precisely because he is terrified of giving offence, and the risk that whatever he says will be weaponised against him.

And the passing law will increase that terror and risk of weaponisation.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120565194#Comment_120565194

Well the content in the Social and Fun threads where most of the traffic is would be reduced to :

grand soft day

thank god

you’ve mentioned god. I’m offended.

Mod: thread closed. That’s enough of that.

Hungry Burger

The Gardai had a watch list of about 20 individuals who they deemed to be “far right agitators” who were speaking on social media and organising anti migrant protests. They didn’t claim what they were saying or organising the protests was a crime to justify putting them on a list, I suspect this legislation is a way of targeting these individuals and nothing more. The Philip Dwyers and Derek Blighs of the world. And while you may disagree fundamentally with these types of individuals, criminalising their right to speak and protest is a scary development. Who’s to say they won’t come after you next?