Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022 - Read OP

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120585531#Comment_120585531

handing out leaflets to promote the " boycott Israel " campaign or someone is handing out leaflets opposing biological males in female sports

Explain, using the text, how it would be a violation/offense of the text?

Hodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120585556#Comment_120585556

The Irish times explained in detail in this article a good few months ago.

" New laws will criminalise incitement to hatred against transgender people and those with a disability, the Cabinet agreed on Tuesday when approving a Bill intended to make prosecutions for hate speech and hate crimes easier.

The Bill will add gender, including gender as well as disability to a list of “protected characteristics” which already include race, colour, nationality, religion, ethnicity or national origin and sexual orientation. "

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2022/10/26/new-bill-to-criminalise-incitement-to-hatred-against-transgender-people-following-cabinet-agreement/

Anyone handing a leaflets opposing biological males in female sports will fall foul of the planned new law under " gender expression and identity " and anyone who hands a leaflet promoting the " boycott Israel " campaign will fall foul of the law under " nationality " .

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120585611#Comment_120585611

As you highlight though nationality is ALREADY protected under CURRENT hate speech proviso.

Are you telling me if you walk out to the square this evening and hand out BDS leaflets against Israel you're going to be in a jail cell in the morning?

Hodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120585618#Comment_120585618

When and if this new law is passed is full if someone complains to gardai about campaigners handing out BDS leaflets then the gardai will have more powers to deal with such complaints even Paul Murphy recognized this over 6 months ago.

fast forward to 6.30

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=509944267681290

" It could also be potentially be used to level bogus charges of anti antisemitism and anti sematic hate speech against pro palestinian activists . "

Hodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120585293#Comment_120585293

Fast forward to 7.52 when Paul Murphy speaks out section 10, Paul speaks about similar new powers that will given to the guards also like Sharon did.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=509944267681290

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120585691#Comment_120585691

I see, you're referencing the proposed inclusion of religion as a characteristic, not nationality, which is what he seems to be debating.

dalyboy

The only thing that’s shocking is how this thread is so quite.

This is a life changing law. Not only in our lives but our future generations lives.

Within 2 years we will be 100% cashless. Within 5 years we will have “social” courts established. In the next 10 years it’s going to be quite an Orwellian existence.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120588642#Comment_120588642

People have been crowing about the cashless society for a generation now. 2 years lol. We've had crypto for 14 years. People have been predicting it will come in 'any second now' since the charge card was introduced in the 1990s.

Sandwich board fearmongering. Based on the debate I was just linked to on facebook, in november, the important talks on the wording of the bill are/were still being held in the Dail, it won't be CA/IMHO writing the internet-points that get the bill changed/passed/stalled/blocked

I suggest instead of complaining how quiet the thread is by trying to stir it up with orwellian paranoia and such why not quote a few quotes proper and get your teeth cut into the actual substance of the topic? All laws are 'life-changing' and unless they have a sunset clause all those laws will affect the lives of future generations... but not all laws are a slippery slope fallacy to cashless societies with social courts and orwellian existence.

dalyboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120588685#Comment_120588685

If you don’t realise the serious acceleration of extreme left centralisation of power over the past 5 or so years then you are either blind to reality or personally benefiting from these effects.

your quote :- “All laws are 'life-changing' and unless they have a sunset clause all those laws will affect the lives of future generations”

Have you actually studied this yourself ? So you are OK with another man legally going through your personal computer/devices AND your families computers and devices? This can happen under a completely vague charge of hate. That’s right hate . Which means dislike (dictionary definition).

This is an utter insane situation and you are off your rocker stating that I’m stirring Orwellian fear mongering. It’s starring you right in the face in the form of this bill. It’s a blueprint to render every citizen a servile bot to the state.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120585611#Comment_120585611

I honestly though gender was already on the list.

When you say:

Anyone handing a leaflets opposing biological males in female sports will fall foul of the planned new law under " gender expression and identity " and anyone who hands a leaflet promoting the " boycott Israel " campaign will fall foul of the law under " nationality "

Is it your opinoin, are you quoting the bill, or are you quoting someone else?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120588642#Comment_120588642

... and we'll have flying cars by 2015, Marty!

dalyboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120589004#Comment_120589004

Sure …… ok That’s some false equivalence stretch you are making there.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120589039#Comment_120589039

I'm making the point that, if the things you mentioned were likely, they would have happened by now.

Cashless society in two years? unless there's an armageddon-type castrophe, that's ridiculous. Twenty or thirty - maybe - but it's not going to happen overnight. There'll be more cashless business done, yes - but not for an entire society.

Sccial courts in 5? What, as in Sharia type courts, wherre laws are based on morals and religions? Seriously? If the Catholic Church couldn't bring this in, it's not going to happen.

Orwellian? I'm inclined to believe that's already here, but you'd have to be more specific.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120588983#Comment_120588983

More waffle/opinion but no substance.

”Have you actually studied it yourself?” If you have contribute it. If not thanks for your opinions.

PowerToWait

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120588983#Comment_120588983

US style culture war, conspiracy nut bullshit. Extreme left? The fcuk country are you living in?

donaghs

Given the experience in the UK, I’d beg to differ. It think some random person online saying there are only 2 genders would be a potential target for the Gardai. And all the other potential causes of offence…

Why does this happen? I don’t know. Maybe it’s easier to target some at a fixed address who has something to fear from a police visit disrupting their comfortable life, rather than tracking down potentially violent scumbags for more serious offences.

Again, I do believe in the idea of “hate speech”, and that it’s wrong. But the legislation seems too broad and open to interpretation and abuse.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590275#Comment_120590275

Hmm.... they will need some alternative easy targets to keep up their arrest/conviction rates once the drug laws are relaxed.

The experience in the UK though, the targets are more likely to be the ones on the left who spend time on Twitter claiming that everything is racism - they just have to wait until they take to the streets to make their move.

Hodger

Speech and actual violence are two different things such as what happened in Meath yesterday evening.

Mod Edit - Video Removed

The one,s who instigated it, should be prosecuted regardless of their quote " religious views " which shouldn,t give them a free pass to assault someone for being gay.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Absolutely - but surely they should be prosecuted regardless?

And as for the school - religious ethos or not - I'd imagine they'll be looking into it as well considering the cowards were in school uniform.

EDIT - acocording to Twitter there were expulsions for the attacks and suspensions for the recording/disturibution (you have to think they knew it was coming).

Mod Edit - Quoted post containing video link removed

Annasopra

@Hodger Gardai asked for that video not to be shared out of respect for the 14 year old who was beaten up. I'd respectfully suggest discussing but taking that video link down

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609307#Comment_120609307

My apologies for my part in that.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609451#Comment_120609451

Don't think it's necessary to apologise. I shared it today also without thinking first.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609307#Comment_120609307

And under this new proposed legislation, would you be committing a crime by sharing that video?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612452#Comment_120612452

They never claimed that. If you want to answer for yourself read the law.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612691#Comment_120612691

I never said they claimed that. I just asked the question.

And given that we have a common law system here unlike the system in the US, quite often you need the courts to determine what is meant by the law. A simple reading of the text doesn't always provide the answer.

Sharing offensive memes could well be a crime under this legislation. It's not a mad stretch to wonder if sharing videos such as the one relevant to this thread will be made illegal by this legislation.

BattleCorp

The search warrant part of the bill is very scary too.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613065#Comment_120613065

For all the effort that waffle took you could read the draft yourself and determine it.

Marcos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613174#Comment_120613174

Senator Sharon Keogan had a video about that.

She also has this video about how similar laws in other countries have been used against Feminists, Climate Activists, Pro Palestinian protestors and people who said nasty things about politicians. It's 5 or so minutes long but well worth a watch IMO, whatever side of the political spectrum you are on.

https://twitter.com/SenatorKeogan/status/1659231555082940416

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613182#Comment_120613182

That's a bit harsh. Legisation is not easy to read and understand, and I say that with about 10 years of using legislation and court procedures. You could just answer the question, based on your own opinion.

From what I've read of this, it's bad and dangerous. Will be interesting to see how this pans out.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120618534#Comment_120618534

They understand perfectly well the implications of the legislation, hence why they support it.