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Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022 - Read OP

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Comments

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    #2822
    L.Ball
    Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭L.Ball


    is burning flags incitement to hatred?



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    #2823
    lmimmfn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121450518#Comment_121450518

    I dont know the legalities of that from the constitution but I would expect it has its own law under treason, as it should.



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    #2824
    mohawk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,781 ✭✭✭mohawk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121450518#Comment_121450518

    Probably depends on the flag.



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    #2825
    sonofenoch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,187 ✭✭✭sonofenoch


    What's this about? has criticising the government become a hate crime?

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1731075795370549550



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    #2826
    lmimmfn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121450742#Comment_121450742

    Yes, not allowed now to criticise the government, pay your taxes and be a good citizen!



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    #2827
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,595 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121450742#Comment_121450742

    From ' the Irish light ' 😂

    Who said anything about hate crimes?



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    #2828
    Str8outtaWuhan
    Registered Users Posts: 968 ✭✭✭Str8outtaWuhan


    The guards were never, from their Inception, the guardians of the peace. During the height of the catholic churches power they acted like the morality police of Iran. Returning pregnant runaways to the laundries and hushing up complaints of child rape by priests. As highlighted by the shatter incident, they now spy on opposition politicians reporting to their political masters, quashing points for friends, family and those in the gaa.



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    #2829
    RabbleRouser2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,312 ✭✭✭RabbleRouser2k


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121450399#Comment_121450399

    Read my original post, I acknowledged they exist,' but they are far from the majority'.

    Those people are extremists, I wouldn't agree with them at all. They may have also harassed Mary Lou McDonald, and even she was loathe to call everyone who disagrees with current government policies 'Far Right'.

    Those who burned tents, burned refugee centers, harass immigrants, and burn out buses... they're extremists who should be sought out and punished under the law. Nobody is 'Irish' enough for them. I think it was Joe Brolly who put it best-they hate Ireland. They're angry no matter what. Conspiracy theories fuel their anger and poisoned ideology. Getting them to see through their negative opinions would take a little more work.



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    #2830
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,595 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121450937#Comment_121450937

    I agree



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    #2831
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,595 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121452280#Comment_121452280

    No idea why the Sergeant has taken the signs. Someone just making stuff up to suit themselves there

    Post edited by suvigirl on


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    #2832
    ArthurDayne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121452280#Comment_121452280

    OK but if we all just take our tinfoil hats off for two seconds and return to the real world where not everything is an illuminati conspiracy or dystopian power grab — the Guard in this video appears to be very polite and I think i heard mention in the chatter of section 8 of (presumably) the Public Order Act. It could simply be the fact that they look to be standing around outside the Londis on Grafton and there may have been a complaint or some other sincere reason in line with the legislation. The Guard appears to have handled it calmly.

    But yes, sorry, this is terrifying and we are probably just a few steps away from a gulag at the Curragh.



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    #2833
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,595 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    How do you know they had no legal right?

    Do you have any idea what happened before the start of the video? Why gardai were there? What laws gardai used?

    Just conspiracy nonsense



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    #2834
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121452600#Comment_121452600

    Offense and hateful language should not be grounds for removal either.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #2835
    Augme
    Registered Users Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭Augme


    I'm amazed people think that a group of people can just rock up and stand outside someone's business and scare customers away and nothing should be done about it. 😂



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    #2836
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121452812#Comment_121452812

    It depends. If it said "kill Leo varadkar" then yes it definitely should be a grounds for removal.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2837
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121452856#Comment_121452856

    That's not hateful language, it's incitement, legally speaking anyway.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #2838
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121452901#Comment_121452901

    Incitement to hatred

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2839
    ArthurDayne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121452600#Comment_121452600

    Well I'm sorry but not using offensive or hateful language is not the be all and end all of the lawfulness of a protest. The Guards can move protestors on under legislation for a number of other reasons, including where they are causing nuisance or unnecessary annoyance, obstructing property etc. Here it looks like they're are just "protesting" outside a small shop for whatever reason so I don't think it's beyond reason to imagine that there were reasonable grounds for making them move on.



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    #2840
    1800_Ladladlad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,363 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    Senator Clonan openly stated he believes there is merit in the legislation and could be a “useful tool” to combat the far-right

    They really do have nothing but disdain for Irish people. He’s carefully avoiding the question, and probably, deliberately. Slither

    https://twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1731728926009860186




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    #2841
    1800_Ladladlad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,363 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    https://twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1732772894785085818

    anti-women's rights to^.

    So McEntee says Far-right is not a crime for someone to have a particular ideology but when they act on certain matters, physical assault let's say, it would be a different story. But with this bill, if I were to state my opinions on immigration and government, under her legislation if she perceives that as hate and reports it, the house gets raided, all my devices bagged and taken as well as whoever's in the house and charged with a hate crime.

    Joint Committee on Justice, Justice Minister McEntee, when asked for a definition of "the far-right", she replies "I'm not sure there is a definition." She then goes on to list typical attributes of the "far-right" as she sees it, including being "anti-immigration", "anti-government" and "anti-woman's rights".

    Note that Independent Trinity Senator Clonan openly stated this week that he believes there is merit in the Hate crime legislation and could be a “useful tool” to combat the "far-right".

    Also this week, we had a Green Party Junior Minister Ossian stating in the Dail that by "attacking" Justice Minister McEnte people are "playing into a far-right trope."

    So now we have a Justice minister who won't (or cannot) define "Far-Right" in regards to her "hate speech" bill, where no definition of hate is provided.



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    #2842
    freebritney
    Registered Users Posts: 277 ✭✭freebritney


    There definetly seems to be a bit of the siege mentality setting in with the government. FG in particular have been in power too long at this stage and instead of reading the audience they are blaming the people for not knowing what's best for them. McEntee in particular seems to only take her foot out of her mouth to put the other one in regarding this legislation. Her definition of the far right is now could be any person who has an issue with the new gender teaching curriculum in schools as it's anti-goverment and anti LGBTQ. If you add in having an issue with the current immigration policy then she has basically described 70% plus of the population as far right.

    It's like they're sitting around the cabinet table asking "are we the baddies?"



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    #2843
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121467329#Comment_121467329

    This is ludicrous hysterical nonsense

    1 nobody is going to storm your house because you were critical of immigration and of government

    2 There would have to be an extremely high threshold for a warrant to be issued to enter your home and seize your computer and phone

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2844
    buried
    Registered Users Posts: 9,756 ✭✭✭buried


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468503#Comment_121468503

    Stop talking $hite, it wasn't two years ago the police were storming people in their own private residences for having more than 4 people in the gaff during the whole covid lockdown debacle, a "high threshold" debacle thrown out the high window the minute the establishment decided it didn't matter anymore. And those people weren't even being labelled as something akin to Heinrich Himmler's SS Schutzstaffel, all they did was have a few people in their house.

    Nobody trusts your precious government anymore, and with good f**king reason too

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



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    #2845
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468650#Comment_121468650

    I am not talking shìte

    This is absolute hysterical nonsense that has no basis in facts whatsoever.

    It's just a complete made up conspiracy with no factual basis.

    It's literally hysterics over nothing.

    No judge in this country is going to grant search warrants for a criticism of government or immigration unless its a very seriously high threshold.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2846
    buried
    Registered Users Posts: 9,756 ✭✭✭buried


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468700#Comment_121468700

    So the police here within the last two years haven't already stormed peoples houses on ludicrous policies the establishment thought up on a whim, and then ditched the policy when it didn't suit the next hyped up geo-political narrative?

    That's not a "conspiracy theory" Anna.

    That Happened.

    Nobody trusts them. And that's a fact.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



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    #2847
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468730#Comment_121468730

    Covid measures are nothing to do with this bill.

    I stand by what I said earlier. This is hysterics over something that just will not happen. It's just conspiracy.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2848
    buried
    Registered Users Posts: 9,756 ✭✭✭buried


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468750#Comment_121468750

    Well they are, because it wasn't a few years ago this same government brought in those draconian measures, like the police storming citizens houses, that in the end they had to throw out the window.

    You are trying to make out that the police storming peoples houses is some sort of "fantastical conspiracy theory" that could never ever ever ever happen, when in reality they were literally doing it only 2 years ago!

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



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    #2849
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468784#Comment_121468784

    That's really just not living in reality actually.

    The covid laws are an entirely separate thing. Yes I am making it out as a conspiracy theory. Judges in this country simply will not be signing warrants to seize computers just because someone criticised government or immigration.

    The search warrant in this bill has nothing to do with criticism of immigration/government.

    There is no provision in the Bill that your house could be stormed if you criticise government or criticise immigration. It is conspiracy.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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