Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022 - Read OP

freebritney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468813#Comment_121468813

If this legislation is so benign why is it causing unease in so many people and I'm talking people like Shane Coleman, Michael McDowell and many others?

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468650#Comment_121468650

The police never stormed anyone in their houses.

Don’t be so dramatic.

It reduces your point to zero.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468813#Comment_121468813

You say it is seperate, but nobody trusts what they have to say Anna, that is my point, and the covid debacle is a root cause of it.

Judges won't sign warrants to seize computers because somebody criticised government or immigration? Well somebody needs to tell the police and the minister for justice, because what they are saying is that people are currently being investigated for making online statements that did criticise government and their ludicrous immigration policies.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468836#Comment_121468836

lol Yeah yeah yeah, shure it never happened, what are ya on about

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/dozens-face-prosecution-after-gardai-raid-party-flouting-covid-rules-1.4484368

https://www.offalyexpress.ie/news/home/618912/gardai-raid-and-shut-down-suspected-covid-19-lockdown-shebeen-stocked-with-beer-kegs.html

https://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/crime-and-courts/609754/blatant-disregard-of-covid-19-as-gardai-raid-midlands-house-party.html

https://www.collegetribune.ie/evictions-and-garda-raids-at-aparto-beckett-house/

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468845#Comment_121468845

You don't trust government, gardai, judiciary. That doesn't mean "nobody" trusts them.

Your statement about people are being investigated for making online statements that criticised government and immigration isn't true. People are being investigated for incitement to hatred.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/1128/1418931-online-far-right-riots/

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468899#Comment_121468899

Okay "incitement to hatred", alright, so what does that term even mean? Does McEntee even know what it means? Because the last time she was asked what it meant you may as well have been asking her what the fourth dimension in quantum physical theory means.

freebritney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468899#Comment_121468899

Under what legislation are they being investigated for inciting hatred? I thought we had no legislation that covers that.

buried

The neo-liberals haven't even copped onto the fact this ludicrous flim flam $hite could be actually used against THEM if some new government comes in with hostility towards their ideological outlook.

It ain't going to be the reign of McEntee, Donohue and Varadkar forever. Not when half of them are looking to bait out of here already.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468870#Comment_121468870

You referred to people having their houses raided for having a handful of people in it. In this case, you've listed a load of house parties that would amount to superspreader events during a global health crisis. So blatant breaking of public health measures got people in trouble.

So similarly, you're now making up ridiculous scenarios that will get houses raided. How long after the legislation is passed do you think this will happen?

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468955#Comment_121468955

The Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act 1989.

We have discussed it extensively here.

It's being updated because

A: It was introduced at a time when widespread electronic communications was not foreseen

B: It's a very difficult law to bring a prosecution under - see for example the case where there was a facebook page set up called "promote the use of knacker babies as shark bait" with extensive posts on that topic.

C It doesn't currently cover incitement to violence

D We need to update Irish law to transpose EU directives on Combating Racism and Xenophobia

There is also an additional part to the bill that brings hate crime legislationtfor the first time.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468946#Comment_121468946

Think of it like this

If you say

A "Minister McEntee is crap and Her immigration policy is shite." That wouldn't be incitement to hatred

B "Minister McEntee is an evil bitch and I'm going to slit her throat cause she's bringing in all the murdering scum immigrants. All immigrants should be shot dead on entry and so should Minister McEntee." That would be incitement to hatred.

Backstreet Moyes

So to make sure I have it right.

The capital city was overrun a few weeks ago, showing the guards are not equipped to do their job.

The minister for justice is focusing on a hate speech Bill to combat the far right.

She can't give a definition of hate or far right.

How in the name of God do we end up with people like this in goverment.

No wonder the country has gone down the gutter in recent years.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121469746#Comment_121469746

Not really no

The Dept of Justice has been drafting this bill for many years and it is coming to fruition

Because upto now the Gardai took a soft touch approach to the far right it allowed them to flourish and build networks enough to incite and cause riots in Dublin City

Govt are progressing with the bill because far right violence and intimidation over 5 or 6 years has gotten out of hand. They have finally realised that the burning of hotels, the arson threats, the calls to murder the president, the homophobic harassment of the taoiseach, the harassment and intimidation of library workers, the burning out of the the TDs car, the calls for politicians to be murdered with pictures of nooses and gallows, the burning out of tents where refugees were living are all part of a serious far right threat that need to be taken seriously.

foxsake

i wrote to my 5 TDs on this . I got two responses.

both were inaccurate - when compared to legal minds like McDowell and Matheson.

but more worryingly the 2 responses ignored my detailed concern about the application of the law in the sections on Search Warrants and potential 12months in prison for taking a principled stance on your privacy by refusing to hand over your pin code.

The fact that your devices can be be seized just because you are in the same building as a person under investigation - flatmates, workmates , family - even if no actual connection and then be obliged to hand over your pin under the threat of prison.

that is tyranny . if Putin was doing it the same yahoos would be crying in the dail

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121469930#Comment_121469930

what is the difference in this warrant and every other warrant?

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121470670#Comment_121470670

all warrants is different dependent on the legislation.

lmao10

The far right scum responsible for inciting the rioting and many others who like to be far right scumbags online and in their groups will be easily prosecuted for it which would have led to no rioting and all of us taxpayers wouldn't have to shell out 20 million euro for the damages. If there was any doubt that this legislation was needed, I think that whole thing pushed every normal person over the line and the vast majority of us want to see the legislation put through immediately. It is really only far right miscreants who are rebelling against it but just like the little dirtbags that have already been prosecuted here and elsewhere for it, they will also be prosecuted. I am not a drinker but I will be having a pint on the day this legislation goes through!! :)

freebritney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121471313#Comment_121471313

Probably safer if you barricaded yourself in a room somewhere, disconnect the internet and hunker down until we let you know it's safe to come out. The far right scum are just around the corner, goosestepping to your house.

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121471730#Comment_121471730

I knew an unfunny joke was coming. Common to see from far right sympathisers. I'd say they should start reconsidering what they've posted online and what's on their devices rather than making the cringe jokes but each to his own.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121471243#Comment_121471243

All warrants allow for the seizure of evidence. All electronic devices are taken as evidence, from the whole household, allowed for by all search warrants.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121471742#Comment_121471742

I don't think "far right" means what you think it means... But you're not alone in that regard - McEntee, Varadkar and most of the media have the same problem at the moment.

Your rant a few posts above and how easily you've apparently been swayed by the argument of one of the most incompetent ministers we've seen in decades and a media that proved impartiality and objectivity in this country is a fantasy only 2/3 years ago, is far more concerning than the actions of an imagined bunch of extremists that you're complaining about.

The same bunch who were rioting and looting are in the main the same bunch already well known to Gardai for low level criminality, antisocial behaviour and in and out of trouble for years. It wasn't a mysterious shadow group of online activists that got these individuals to do what they did - they are opportunists and simply took advantage of the tragic situation to go on a rampage as they've done in less well to do neighbourhoods many times before.

The bigger concern is how easily someone like yourself is ready to hand over their democratic rights and liberties again just as happened during the Covid hysteria - and I say hysteria because what was a serious situation for sure was blown out of all proportion by blanket and one-sided reporting and the villification and demonisation of anyone who even questioned the responses and actions being taken.

All of this has happened before, and people like you will sleepwalk into it again telling yourself that it's the "right thing" and "it won't effect me because I'm not far right".

It's amazing how easily manipulated people can be and how short memories they have.

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477113#Comment_121477113

Terrible attempt. The far right have been well documented. Scum is what they are and as far as I'm concerned it will be a great day when they are locked up. I'm not happy paying for the 20 million worth of damage as a result of the largely unchecked growth of the far right and their scumbag sympathisers are also complicit. I think we will see a quick turnaround to prosecutions once the legislation is introduced due to stylometric analysis which they are not smart enough to consider.

1800_Ladladlad

Roderic O’Gorman was talking about how he was “quite frustrated” with the claim that migration is not discussed in Ireland and also criticized some opposition TDs who had made “entirely inaccurate” claims about immigration in the Dáil. He also applied that sentiment to people who protest mass migration in general. But what I found odd was when he said "There are people who are “committed racists” who are determined to stir up racist sentiment around the country and accurate information would not change their position." What is a committed racist? 50+ hours a week? What he perceives as being "racist"? He went on to state how the hate speech and hate crime legislation will be useful for when such people “step beyond a certain mark”....“We can’t stop people having particular views – that’s not possible. But where, I suppose, through those views, they’re inciting violence and hatred to other people, I think that’s where the State can step in.” Step beyond a certain mark.......the State can step in....and all that's needed is perception etc //////

lmimmfn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121548577#Comment_121548577

That is exactly what the government want, leave the point of where that certain mark is vague in the legislation so its easier for them to re-define where the mark is and how they decide how the plebs of the country should think.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468700#Comment_121468700

A Judge no longer has to sign a search warrant. The Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 allows any Garda of the rank of Superintendent or above to sign a search warrant.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121552099#Comment_121552099

Completely and totally untrue.

Section 17 of the act amends Section 24 of the firearms act 1925. (Originally a search order under the act was issued by a superintendent)

the new section has changed that search order into a search warrant issues by a judge of the district court. If a warrant is required in urgent circumstances and it's not practical to get a judge, a superintendent may issue the warrant. Much the same as many other warrants in different pieces of legislation, the Drugs Acts for example.

so no, the Act of 2023 has had no difference to any warrant, other then the search order in the Firearms Act 1925.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121552192#Comment_121552192

Honest mistake. I'll bow to your superior knowledge.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121552218#Comment_121552218

No need to panic 😊

TomTomTim

Opposition to this legislation is being pushed by Mr Space Fascist

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1746917108649275882

It almost Hitlerian how "freedom" is being pushed by far right autocrat loving scum.

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121619556#Comment_121619556

The far right fighting for the freedom to be hateful scumbags. Hes a weird creepy guy. Not surprised one of his own kids disowned him.