NEW 2022 Assistant Principal Competition - Open and Interdepartmental

the_freaky_one

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120160009#Comment_120160009

Are you on the open stream or inter stream or both. Looking at your scores and the original poster you quoted, I'd say you are in open stream and they are in inter department stream.

Even though both scores are similar, there would be less applications in the inter stream than open stream so the other person could have a much lower OOM postion with similar scores to yourself because they are in a different steam .

countyireland12345

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120165135#Comment_120165135

Thanks, perhaps that's it!

The whole Irish Civil Service recruitment process seems confusing, archaic and outdated. In the UK Civil Service, from my understanding, jobs are advertised as soon as they become available, at all levels. You know exactly the role you are applying for and what Department you will be in. Some have more specific requirements, while others just have general requirements such as demonstrating the required behaviours (like the Irish CS competitions). The supply of jobs is constant as opposed to once a year. The process is still merit-based and sifting applications is the lead tool to reduce the numbers to a manageable level, although each job is unlikely to attract as many applicants as the Irish CS competitions do. I wonder will the Irish Civil Service ever move to something similar.

gazzer

I am in the first 400 by OOM (got 387), however I am slightly below the 1159 threshold for shortlisting.

It's probably wishful thinking on my part that the first 400 will be shortlisted initially 😂

the_freaky_one

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120165224#Comment_120165224

Not just the recruitment process, wait till you see what awaits on the other side 😂😂

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120165285#Comment_120165285

That's unlucky. Someone mentioned yesterday it was top 400 that was the cut, so maybe it's not. At least your top of batch 2 when it comes around👍

Brera

Just so people have an idea of the timeline. It may be slightly different this time since they are using the form for shortlisting purposes but I applied for the 2021 competition and got in the 1200s in the OOM, which put in me batch 3 or 4.

I looked back at the dates and it took 9 months to get called to round 2 which was the video interview shortlisting.

OUTOFSYNC

How does the 1 way video interview work? I've never come across this before. What types of questions get asked ?

Thanks for all the info. Much appreciated.

durthacht

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166128#Comment_120166128

I don't know but I imagine everything will be based on the competencies from the original booklet.

Melloh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120164898#Comment_120164898

nice summary

At shortlisting they look at your application form and reissue an OOM to you - some some will be lost due to application form not up to scratch.

what would be great is if we knew the score of someone who was placed 800 in OOM then we might have an idea of the next batch intake?

Tipp star

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166309#Comment_120166309

Mid 760’s here with 1100 points in Open stream and early 500’s in Interdepartmental. Although unlike previous competitions this is overall rather than by county selected.

I think I recall reading somewhere on the original application that the first 100 or more would also be considered for Higher Assistant Principal role too.

Wyattwouldnt

I think you could be right about the first 100, it's ringing a bell. A nice bonus for those who fall into that group!

I'm low 500s OOM Open so well outside if I ever get called for batch 2 or 3😂

Thanks for all the great info everyone👍

TryingAsBestICan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166309#Comment_120166309

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166504#Comment_120166504

I'm scored 1166 so scraped in the door for the first stage to 2nd stage (1159) by 7 marks. I'm 420 Open, 289 InterD. Kildare 1st, Dublin 2nd. I read the competition material and expect a second OOM, or booting out, after PAS look at my application form. Don't expect an online interview but would welcome other opinions. Expecting a presentation and in-person interview

Thesiger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166442#Comment_120166442

Hi everyone, I am really thankful to have this board as I would be completely lost without it! I am trying to get my head around the OOM allocation- my question is now around the 1st 100 in OOM. Are they considered for Higher AP based on the OOM from the tests or the OOM from the tests+application stage?

billyhead

Those higher APs would be assigned to DPER, DFIN or Taoiseachs. As far as I know no higher APs or POs work in other departments.

Brera

In the past they launched a separate AP higher competition like in 2019 which was open to existing APs and the top 439 of the AP competition that have made it through to 3rd stage.

Brera

The short listing of the form is new this year. In the last competition they went straight to the video interview and used that to shortlist candidates.

I don’t know if they will include it this year. Someone mentioned previously that they dropped it for the HEO competitions. Which kind of make sense, why bother going to the time and expense of having people record themselves answering questions when you pull that information from the application form.

The video interview itself involved simply recording yours answers to three questions on topics such a leadership or managing teams. They were very similar to the questions on the application form.

PhoenixParker

They did shortlisting on forms before, back in 2019. Then they switched to recorded video interviews the last 2 comps, now it seems they're back to forms shortlisting.

KatieRose69

Any one any predictions re batch 2 Dublin? Am 614 in oom and scored 1125 . Trying to work out how many per batches 2 and 3?

757TFFIU

Has anybody ever been in a position where they've moved Department part way through a PAS competition before?

While all of the employment history I submitted on my application form was accurate at the time of application back in November, I have since moved Department on mobility, so am now in a new position.

It probably isn't of any great relevance at the moment as it's only shortlisting stage, given that PAS are probably only interested in reading what's on the form. It would be more relevant at interview or clearance (if I was to even make it that far), in that I might have to explain the change and reasons for moving on during interview, as well as PAS having to contact my new Department during clearance to verify my attendance/punctuality/PMDS etc are in order.

Is it worth dropping them an email at this stage to ask to have it noted with their record my application? Or, just leave it and worry about it if I even make it to the end of the process?

(I'm obviously not interested in asking to make any level of a change to the actual application form. I'm conscious that would be out of order and they'd quite rightly tell me to take a hike)

CS2023

Section 5 from the circular refers to the Assistant Principal Officer Higher competition criteria.

"It is envisaged that a separate competition may be held to fill future vacancies in the Civil Service at the grade of Assistant Principal Officer Higher. This future separate competition will be limited to existing civil servants at the grade of Assistant Principal Officer Standard and equivalent with at least 2 years’ service completed within the Civil Service, as well as to the top 160 candidates from Stage 1 in this Assistant Principal Officer Standard interdepartmental competition. Any existing civil servant at a grade below Assistant Principal Officer Standard or equivalent by the closing date that may be interested in applying for the next Assistant Principal Officer Higher interdepartmental competition should therefore ensure that they apply and compete in this Assistant Principal Officer Standard interdepartmental competition."

CS2023

Does anyone have an idea of how many people applied for the competition and how many got the qualifying score?

Darwiny

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120169062#Comment_120169062

Top 60% passed and based off the feedback sheet, the average score would be 1,001 so twice that would be total. I imagine 3,000

the_freaky_one

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120169480#Comment_120169480

Where did you see the top 60% passed btw?

Someone on here posted an OOM of 1895 with test score of 838 and in theory that would likely not be the lowest as a score of 780 would pass and get an OOM.

Assuming 1895 as lowest OOM (it won't be), if 60% was the pass rate, that would mean definetly at least 3185 in total applied, but likely to be well over 3500, so not a bad estimate..

Addle

I presumed the video interviews were due to covid type restrictions and wouldn’t be needed any more?

Darwiny

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120170128#Comment_120170128

Educated guess. If the average is 500 for all and the pass mark is 390, that'd make a 39% fail rate for each? Give or take a few percent for having to pass all 3

PhoenixParker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120171007#Comment_120171007

They originally were but it saves a lot of time & hassle getting regional candidates to travel to Dublin for interviews (and previously the in person version of the tests too).

They could offer a choice but that coukd introduce complaints about a slanted playing field.

CS2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120171113#Comment_120171113

Thanks for the reply. I think it would be hard to calculate based on the information given in the candidate feedback.

If we take it that the average is, (total marks of all candidates) divided by (total candidates) then there are lots of different total candidate numbers that will give you the same average.

The qualifying score is independent of the total number of candidates with qualifying scores.

It's probably easier to guess the number of candidates that passed if you knew a candidate's OOM and their qualifying score than it is to guess from the feedback provided.

As stated by a poster above, 780 is the qualifying score and OOM 1895 is 838, there may be a good number of candidates who met the qualifying score between the two numbers. Most likely over 2000 met the qualifying mark.

I was just curious and it won't keep me awake at night but in a time where so many tasks are automated, you'd think as much information would be made available as possible to save PAS having to answer any questions. If a simple reply to an email or phonecall to say you haven't got the information or can't give it out creates work.

I know it took a long time to provide the results but I'd question how hard it would be to provide:

• How many total candidates
• How many reached the pass mark, and similar for each test
• How many did not reach the pass mark, and similar for each test
• Total candidates that passed for each region

It might be the case that initially they are af afraid to commit to what the process will involve given that the amount of candidates that will apply and more importantly reach the pass mark is unpredictable. However, I would be surprised if there was not a plan for each scenario where a certain total of candidates reach the pass mark. For transparency and to avoid as many needless phonecalls and emails, I would have thought it would be best practice to make this known as soon as possible, with possible after the qualifying marks were released.

agnena

Sometimes this type of information is released to the relevant unions.

Curranjo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120169059#Comment_120169059

Is that from the information booklet as i couldn't find any mention of it in there?

Audreyly

Is anyone on here who got through in the 1st Batch that had a total score of 1159 who can tell us what their OOM was for both the open and the Inter D

Heidih

Am i right in saying its the total score that counts not the OOM