Autumn Internationals 2022

Jacovs

No problem with that red. Idiotic, can really hurt someone.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119925601#Comment_119925601

it was a dangerous a hit as I’ve seen autumn. From a guy of that size, at pace. Pretty shocking that, even in the heat of the moment, that kind of hit is even considered

irelandrover

They have to be the stupidest team in rugby

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119925612#Comment_119925612

England or Wales?

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119925589#Comment_119925589

Don't tell Squidge that

OldRio

I thought SA played well against an awful England side

accensi0n

That tip at the ruck could have been a red if it was earlier in the game no?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119925692#Comment_119925692

I agree. Really solid defence and imaginative going forward (at least by Springbok standards). It’s good to see the odd drop goal too - under-utilised IMO. They were more physical and dynamic today but maybe that’s because England just seem soft. I enjoyed watching them play

Larbre34

England are a shambles.

I know the received wisdom is not to bin your coach 12 months out from a WC, but Jones is at nothing here, they'd be better off trying literally ANYTHING else.

Bogwoppit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119925777#Comment_119925777

Pivac might be available

CIARAN_BOYLE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119925777#Comment_119925777

Jones already has his fall man set up for when he is called to the carpet by the RFU performance director.

All flaws will be blamed on Anthony Seibold. He is leaving anyway and a new defense coach is joining the set up.

OldRio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119925818#Comment_119925818

Ouch.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119925777#Comment_119925777

I think jones is doing the best with that he has, and he has very little.

An inexperienced SH playing behind an average front row, with one class player in the back 5 in itoje and one good player in Curry, the rest are all either journeymen or washed up internationals like billy V.

He has a ten at 12 and a 12 at 13 and all his back 3 options are bang average.

They need to decide on a 10, keep farrell on the bench get under hill back fit and discover an 8 somewhere.

lawrencesummers

Out of interest in the SA game two things happened that the ref adjudged different to what I reckoned it should have been.

The first was etzebeths try under the posts, he was on the ground playing the ball surely?

The second was a break by arense i think towards the end of the first half (after he had scored a try) when he kicked on and the english FB dived goalkeeper style and stopped it with his hand. It was ruled a knock on, but surely it should have been a penalty for a deliberate knock on, he was one handed and never going to gather it.

maybe i should send the videos to rassie and sew what he thinks.

TheRona

Yikes

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119926293#Comment_119926293

If your playing the players from 10 years ago you may as well have the manager from then as well

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119926035#Comment_119926035

Have heard on numerous pod casts that Jones is a complete tyrant. Absolute cretin and weirdo at times but obviously a highly capable coach and if people can tolerate the environment and things click he can deliver performances.

The turnover of coaches (aside from further implying how difficult it is to work with Jones) also denies the team continuity and it seems clear that they don't know what brand of rugby they want to play.

Could well turn it around for the world cup, he's done it before - but things look a bit grim at the moment and those players are not performing at all.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119926396#Comment_119926396

His autumn was saved by an all black capitulation

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119926396#Comment_119926396

Has he turned things around so much, so quickly before? 4 years ago England beat SA, Oz and Japan and only lost by a point to NZ after a late try was overruled by the TMO. This obviously being a far superior NZ side to the one they played this year. They then went on to come 2nd in the 2019 6Ns having put in some very dominant displays in a somewhat mixed tournament for them. But in Nov 2018 they were competitive with the best in the world, winning more than not.

This November they lost to Argentina, drew with a relatively weak NZ side and lost badly to SA, their only win coming against Japan. They haven’t really shown themselves to be all that competitive with the best in the world.

This is a lower position that they were in 4 years ago. They are 5 from 13 this year, with their only wins coming against Italy, Wales, Australia (x2) and Japan. In 2018 they were 6 from 13, beating Italy, Wales, South Africa (x2), Japan and Australia. And I’d argue that NZ and SA are both weaker than they were this time 4 years ago. As above, they were more competitive in their 1 loss 4 years ago (against a class NZ side) than they were in either loss this year.

In both 6Ns (2018 & 2022) they only won 2 games, but by the November in 2018 they were ramping up and starting to look like a quality side. That simply isn’t happening right now. The 6Ns is incredibly important for them now. If they can’t string together a couple of performances in that then they are in trouble. They’ll make the knock outs and probably the SF because of the kindness of the draw, but I can’t see them going further than that unless they start to turn things around in the next few months.

Shehal

I hate to say this I think Wales need to get that witch doctor they had in 2021 back on board.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119927091#Comment_119927091

In the backrow or midfield?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119927042#Comment_119927042

They're definitely at a low ebb but they looked to be playing with a similar kind of malaise in 2018 and we're a different team just a year later.

Lot's of criticism going around and Jones has latched onto this 'wait for the world cup' mantra as a response. Six nations should be illustrative and give an indication as to whether it's all bluff.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119927091#Comment_119927091

After the Georgia loss, to capitulate at home in such dramatic fashion is possibly the worst imaginable outcome.

They'll be seriously doubting themselves going into the six nations and as much as I expect them to put it up to Ireland, their six nations is over if they lose at home in round 1 and that could lead to a very ugly tournament.

lawrencesummers

Watching squidge it looks like england have something in the works, they might be developing a game plan that will yield some results yet.

That said they havent shown it working against a decent side except NZ down to 14 and i just dont think they have the players.

The wont have any expectation of silverware come the 6N but they are still capable of doing damage and are a hard side to beat.

noc1980

It's easy for Squidge to claim England are holding things back that will be revealed at the RWC, given their easy group and path to a SF. Not to mention the fact that mediocre teams can and do go far in world cups.

England 07 were bang average yet made the final.

France lost 3 times at RWC 2011 and narrowly avoided another loss to 14 man Wales, despite all that they should have won the final.

Australia in 2015 were nothing to write home about yet made the final.

Springboks in 2019, good in the final against a spent England, beat a poor Wales side and a Japan side that had already played their final, lost to NZ in the group.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119925777#Comment_119925777

I 100% agree with this, and yet, they've a far better chance of progressing deep in the RWC than we do, purely by the luck of the draw.

They're in an incredibly soft pool with Argentina, Japan, Samoa and Chile, and then likely have Wales in the QF. They'll only have to play 2 of the elite teams to potentially win the tournament.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119928111#Comment_119928111

I 100% agree with this, and yet, they've a far better chance of progressing deep in the RWC than we do, purely by the luck of the draw.

Lucky draws aren't enough (as we've shown). You have to actually turn up. Which England probably will.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119928127#Comment_119928127

There was nothing lucky about our draw in 2019. We've never had a path as soft as England potentially have at the moment.

To reach a SF they have to overcome the current World #7 and #10 in their pool (alongside #11 and #22(!)), to likely then face the #9 team in the world in a QF. That's a historically soft path whatever way you look at it, and would be no great indicator of England's quality if they make it to a SF.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119928165#Comment_119928165

In 2017 when the 2019 draw was made, Scotland/Japan was as easy a pool as you could get, SA were a shambles and we were all sat here saying what a great draw it was for us.

In 2015, all we had to do was beat an awful French team to avoid NZ and get the worst of all the teams in the quarters.

So we can talk about how "easy" England's draw is all we like. But we've had "easy" draws in the past and shat the bed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119928172#Comment_119928172

It doesn't stack up from a ranking perspective - we were drawn in a pool with the then #5 team in the world and the #11 team (who were also hosts), but then had the potential to face NZ or SA in the QF. Are you seriously telling me that's a better potential draw than either facing likely Australia or Wales next year?

It seems more like another one of those scenarios where you're being contrarian for the sake of it.