Qatar World Cup

irelandrover

so you'd take my opinion on say corporate tax over say an investigative journalist from The Economist. or that i could vouch for how gay and LGBT people fare in Dublin over actual lived experience. just cause one lives in a country does not make them experts on all matters. i know we Irish like to think it does, but thats just one of our idiosyncrasies

I'd take your opinion on drugs in dublin rather than a journalist. Corporate tax rate is not something you can see by living in a city. You can see drug users on the street even tho drugs are illegal in the country.

I don't care about its size, or history or whatever. I care about human rights abuses, labor laws and LGBT rights. thats it

If you are going to ban all countries that don't match your ideals then that's a lot of countries. Hell, even parts of the US make slavery legal and ban abortion. Do you stop a world cup going there. They have an atrocious human rights record with guantamamo bay.

Parts of Asia with their almost child slavery in factories. Africa with their child miners.

Again, I don't agree with the world Cup going there. I think their human rights record is too bad. The death penalty for homosexuality is too far.

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119885998#Comment_119885998

i live in Dublin north inner city centre. while i can tell you there is drugs here, i can only tell you anecdotally. not all Journalists or media are the big bad wolf you are making them out to be. they aren't the reason people are taking issue with Qatar.

no you're not responding to what i said. its not about matching my (as if its just mine) ideals. its saying that World Cups shouldn't be given to countries don't go against the grain of a majority of its founding members. over 65 per cent of the World has decriminalized homosexuality. plenty of countries to choose from.

Nobody in America is involved in slavery or getting enslaved. it shouldn't be on the statute books etc, but the difference is people are being jailed in Qatar for homosexuality. and worse all across the Muslim World. the same debate would be ongoing in loads of countries. and yes one could frame some racism around it. its why im referencing the new stand against Islamaphobia from people who are generally ardent anti religion. and how their heads must be seriously conflicted in times like this. its clearly a race thing. again, a new clash of civilisation. and i'd imagine if this WC backfires, or there is blatant criticism we will lose the sphere of influence over the ME. its already happening.

as i said there is a load of hypocrisy in this. i'm not disputing it. China is problematic now, Russia obviously. and many other places. Gitmo was horrendous and totally unjust in thegrand scheme of things. But so two was the killing of 2977 people on American soil. its hard to know how one would respond to that if it happened.

Corporations using child labor, mobile phones using zinc mined by children. but we are dealing in the here and now and talking about Qatar.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119885942#Comment_119885942

Again - its that myopic and quite frankly arrogant viewpoint, the same viewpoint that in previous centuries brought us the 'lets tame these savages' approach.

Western Values? By which is clearly meant 'White European and North American Values', it doesnt mean Africa values or Middle Eastern Values or Asian Values.......

So if Qatar wants to improve its image in the 'World' as you say, doesnt matter about all those other values, only 'Western Values' aka our values are the ones that count.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886115#Comment_119886115

I'm not saying all journalists are bad. There are some great journalists. But using the 6500 figure is misleading at best.

I responded exactly to what you said.

Labor laws - slavery in the states and child labour in Asia and Africa.

Human rights abuses - slavery in the states and guantanamo Bay.

LGBT - most Muslim countries.

You want everyone to match European standards or else they don't get a world cup.

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886145#Comment_119886145

i disagree its misleading. what is misleading is you talking about slavery in the present tense in the American context. thats just nonsense

you didn't really, its just whataboutery. i mean we're kind of on a similar page.

Yeah and which muslim countries are getting a World Cup right now?

again its not a hard concept to get your head around. 65 per cent of the World doesn't criminalize LGBT people. there's a list i posted before. most of Africa, and most Muslim countries are the offenders. its only right they should be held to account IF they want to host a World event.

And no most of these won't be getting a World Cup any time soon. thats the whole **** point.

For better or worse FIFA is a western led institution, founded by European members. Many of its continental brethern also uphold traditional human values. Russia and Qatar (and the Chinese olympics) were clear outliers and will influence any future WC. Brazil was problematic given the corruption and the money etc.

it will no doubt get murky again, and other places will pop up.

i'm not disputing the hypocricy. the shite around the golf, but then people turning a blind eye about NEwcastle etc. Corporations are some of the worst hypocrites out there.

irelandrover

you didn't really, its just whataboutery

you mentioned three different areas you have issues with. I gave examples of countries that then wouldn't meet your standards and hence shouldn't be allowed a world cup.

If you only want to talk about LGBT then you shouldnt have brought up the other subjects.

Mentioning 6500 is definitely misleading when you relate it to people dying because of the world Cup. That number includes all migrants that died for all reasons.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886137#Comment_119886137

I'd argue acceptance and imclusivity are human values, not western or white values.

As I said earlier, it's a cultural distinction not a political one.

gormdubhgorm

Saw this video from TIFO. Basically Qatar does not just have the bribery questions etc. A chunk of the Middle East, Russia, Britain, USA, FIFA etc have just used the Qatar WC as one giant geopolitical game. Either to prevent it, dilute it, or encourage it.

Espionage, weapons deals, high finance manoeuvres, Money talks, basically.

https://youtu.be/FShmni7wXi8

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886466#Comment_119886466

Spot on - and who could argue with you.

However, the term specifically used that I was addressing was 'Western Values'. Terms not used were acceptance, inclusivity and human values. As such, I am not sure why you are saying this to me.

Hotblack Desiato

Human rights are not "western values" they are universal, or supposed to be. You don't forfeit your human rights just because the majority of your fellow citizens happen to be catholic or muslim or whatever. We still haven't quite got our head around the concept in this country that making the human rights of minority groups (for instance gay people, or pregnant women) subject to a majority vote really isn't the right way to go about things, even if we did get the right result on those two occasions.

Hotblack Desiato

What is with this "islamophobia" crap. It's not "islamophobia" to point out the terrible human rights record of every single muslim-majority country, even the so-called "liberal" ones like Turkey or Malaysia. Not that some so-called "christian countries", or irreligious China or North Korea are anything to write home about either. I won't be supporting a Pyongyang World Cup bid anyway...

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887368#Comment_119887368

Problem here is the main Minority group in Qatar is the Royal Family and they have total control and rights of everything.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887368#Comment_119887368

Well really what we’re voting for is a change to the wording of our constitution. For marriage equality we needed to remove the reference of marriage being between a man and a woman, otherwise any attempted law regarding it would be deemed unconstitutional.

These things aren’t being put to a referendum because we think it’s suitable to decide rights by a majority vote.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887368#Comment_119887368

“Human rights are not "western values" they are universal, or supposed to be.”

“Supposed to be” is right. It’s funny how many similarities there are between the self righteous zealots and the former colonials when it comes to defining what should be applicable in every culture.

Hotblack Desiato

So culture is an excuse for oppression?

walshb

I don’t give a fook where this tournament is on. All I know is that I’ll be glued to it as always. WC the greatest sporting event on earth.

buried

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAH Give it up for the muddrfookin SPORT lads

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KacXNs77R9Y

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887407#Comment_119887407

I thought it is FIFA that get the merchandise rights, broadcast etc. And the country that hosts the WC doesn’t make a profit.

lawred2

Not sure if prime time were trying to paint a positive, negative or balanced picture there of Qatar for the world cup. But that was beyond grim. Corralled into small areas where you can consume some over priced Budweiser.

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119821303#Comment_119821303

Well that's me finished with the Qatar National Bank !

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887391#Comment_119887391

A lot of posters who themselves would be apoplectic when "woke" people use the "race card" are now more than happy to throw it out there to shut down any defense of human rights.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887639#Comment_119887639

The Emir's of Qatar don't need to make a profit. They got that already. Much like the owners of PSG/Man City/ Newcastle FC. What these Emirs need is a showpiece to make themselves look as culturally involved within the western world that they don't culturally belong to, but they desperately want to be involved in. Football is that showpiece because its basic nature is based of money and greed. They have the money, and the west has the greed.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119888029#Comment_119888029

Yeah spot on, last line hits the nail on the head. Or the camel on the hump.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882139#Comment_119882139

In all those countries you can.

drink a few pints

dress how you like… in Qatar, women wearing less is frowned upon.

eat whatever food on whatever day..

be gay..

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/10/24/qatar-security-forces-arrest-abuse-lgbt-people

according to the UN :

The State of Qatar is not party to the 1951 Convention on the Status of Refugees or its 1967 Protocol (hereinafter jointly referred to as the 1951 Convention). Qatar is neither party to the 1954 Convention relating to the Status of Stateless Persons, nor the 1961 Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness. Qatar lacks national legislation on asylum or a comprehensive strategy to deal with persons under UNHCR’s mandate. The status of all foreigners, including asylum-seekers and refugees is governed by rules and regulations concerning residency and migration. Furthermore, the Qatari nationality law does not meet international standards and fails to fully protect against the risk of statelessness. For instance, it does not allow mothers to confer nationality to their children, even if this may result in statelessness.

The State of Qatar hosts 189 refugees (55% female and 31% children), and 133 asylum- seekers (46% female and 37% children). They are mostly of Iraqi and Syrian origin.

they criticise woman’s rights, treatment of women and many aspects of Qatar and Qatari life.

no way in hell should a state like that, have been given the go ahead to host the tournament.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119888072#Comment_119888072

You should watch the series on Netflix on Qatar/WC. Ironically a key speech was made by a woman from the Qatar delegation.

NIMAN

Finding it funny how the media that is actually meant to be there (2 latest example being Tony O Donoghue and a Danish TV crew) is being accosted in the street by security personnel.

If this is them being welcoming, and taking issue with official media people, can't see how they will take to rowdy fans.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119888117#Comment_119888117

100%.

what will they do to celebrating and slightly rowdy fans ? After success or disappointment ?

connundrum

“Qatar pressurising Fifa to perform a complete U-turn on the beer policy at the World Cup and stop selling Budweiser at the eight World Cup stadiums altogether.”

Imagine if it was Budweiser who brought the house of cards down?!

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/world-cup-qataris-want-complete-stadium-beer-ban-f5bcjprqh

Strumms

ive been to two world cups and believe me, it’s all it’s cracked up to be AND more. Blisteringly great fun, interesting and a lifetime experience to remember…

It’s freedom to enjoy yourself.

drink beers

wear whatever

shout whatever

walk down the street without being harassed by state goons..

journalists could report without being harassed, assaulted and threatened by state goons.. as we’ve seen, no ball kicked and this has started..

hopefully international journalists are diligent in reporting, supporting the truth…during this sham cup.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119888185#Comment_119888185

Someone needs to just let the Qataris know that Budweiser isn't beer 🤣