Qatar World Cup

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900891#Comment_119900891

They were prepared to accept the fines etc. but then FIFA said individual players would be booked it they wore it and sporting sanctions might be on the agenda. Left them with no choice.

FIFA are a disgusting organisation.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900902#Comment_119900902

Some Bangledeshi sweatshop workers get under 20 cents and they make clothes that end up in Western clothes outlets.

It is not some edgelord talking-point that Westerners are the end point of a supply chain that's effectively based on slavery. Its just something that people don't like to think about.

But they should think about it now if they are going to have a selective outrage-fest against one dodgy country.

Hillmanhunter1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900902#Comment_119900902

The minimum wage in Qatar is $412 per month.

Most workers earn more.

Nobody is living in tents.

Yes it gets to above 40 in the summer, not just in Qatar, but across the Middle East, Pakistan and North India. I guess you don't care about manual workers in Pakistan?

The death rate is not statistically high.

It is illegal in Qatar to confiscate passports.

Other than that it was a zinger of a post!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900911#Comment_119900911

You didn't ask anything. Asking opens with "are you saying...." Stating opens with "so you're saying..."

It was also a massive jump to get from "Your post said "muslims don't agree" not states" to "so you think ordinary Muslims are pro gay rights?" - care to explain the thinking behind that one, please?

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900912#Comment_119900912

Agree. If the FA and the footballers were wearing the armband on the ground of a principled stance?

They have just exposed the simple truth that they have none. That as soon as their action has a consequence upon them, that they'd prefer to avoid that rather than actually stand up for the principle they intended.

This world cup is a shít show already. The only good thing out of it so far IMO? Is that the corrupt edifice of FIFA has been trolled by Qatari money and chicanery. The beer being a prime example. It's not banned in stadiums, it's available if you're in a hospitality suite. It's just the plebs in the stands that are denied it, in an effort to make Qatar look like they've clamped down.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900919#Comment_119900919

But nobody cares about Catholicism much any more.

People absolutely do follow Islam to an extent I don't we can appreciate here. It's far more all-encompassing than Catholicism ever was.

It's safe to assume an Irish person likes a pint or a rural American has a gun or a conservative Muslim (which most Arabs are) is homophobic. You mightn't be right in all cases, but it's certainly a reasonable assumption.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900934#Comment_119900934

Yes - 100%. Was in walking past Penneys in Blanch y'day. Mobbed.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900946#Comment_119900946

I still haven't got your point.

Ninthlife

Just to comment on the actual purpose of the World Cup which is to play football but equally horrific is

Harry Maguire is due to start for England

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

..

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900934#Comment_119900934

I'm not making a broad defence of the textiles industry, there are massive problems in parts of that industry. I'm pointing out numbskull edgelordism on where the English football jerseys are made. A buck thirty an hour is average pay in Thailand, and in the provinces is above that.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900813#Comment_119900813

I have a life long commitment to boycotting Budweiser

kazamo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900666#Comment_119900666

Not daft enough to ever look for 0% corruption, but judging bids based on financial criteria has left us with this fiasco.

Future WC bids should include an element for the potential hosts social inclusion policy to avoid a repeat of this.

All countries must do more, much more.

It was a typo, should have been Iran.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900956#Comment_119900956

It's a fair point for sure. The bigger question in an era of sustainability is whether they should be made half way around the world and with as many micro-plastics as they do.

And of course how $1 an hour labour translates to £115 for a shirt is another question.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900953#Comment_119900953

Then just ask rather than imply.

My point is: Saying "muslim" is not the same is saying "muslim state", obviously. Which, specifically are you referring to and what, in a nutshell, is the point you were making initially?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900949#Comment_119900949

They do in a lot of places.

Again: what, exactly, in a nutshell, is the point you're trying to make here?

Hillmanhunter1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900949#Comment_119900949

Most Arabs are not conservative Muslims. Conservatism on any issue is, by definition, one end of a spectrum.

The brand of Islam found in Saudi Arabia and Qatar is probably conservative, buy the Arabs of the Maghreb, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Oman, the Lebanon and Iraq are, by and large, much more liberal.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900966#Comment_119900966

Therein lies the problem - as long you accept corruption exists, there'll always be "what about his place? Or this place? or this place?"

FIFA need to make a clear and unequivable stance as to what they are looking for in venue applicants and whether or not inclusion is a requirement. Then places like Qatar and Iran can decided whether or not they want to bid.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900940#Comment_119900940

Average pay in Qatar (excluding locals who are paid multiples) is about 4k USD per month. These labourers were getting paid poverty wages and yes there are documented and confirmed instances of having them live in tents.

If you don't think passports were confiscated by employers and people weren't prevented from leaving the country you have congealed puss occupying your skull. Wise-up and don't be making a fool of yourself. This has all been documented.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900914#Comment_119900914

ended up committing suicide

He did while he was out after evading an arrest warrant for allegedly sexually assaulting a 17 year old whilst he was unconcious.

It's best not to listen to Eamonn Dunphy on any topic these days.

Fashanu was a quite complicated and unsavoury character truth be told.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900982#Comment_119900982

"Much more liberal" isn't really a ringing endorsement is it - they still will mostly adhere to rules around, for example, eating meat, drinking alcohol, dress rules (particularly for women), and homosexuality being illegal (as it is in most of the countries you listed, and there's no particular indication that that's about to change any time soon). Sharia law is a big influence in legislation in all those countries too.

That's fairly stretching the meaning of "liberal"

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900970#Comment_119900970

The point, again, is that your comparison between Catholics and Muslims (post #1059) doesn't stack up.

Hillmanhunter1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900993#Comment_119900993

I live in Qatar, I have done for more than a decade - so I can be a bit tetchy about people who are one Google search away from their next profound insight.

The average salary in Qatar (excluding locals) is nowhere near $48,000 per annum.

European and American teachers might get paid around that, engineers and accountants a bit more. But the vast majority of workers in Qatar are from Asia (India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bangladesh and the Philippines).

As for the minimum wage it is not poverty wages (and food and lodgings are generally added to that). Poverty wages can be found in the home countries of these workers.  Most of the unskilled manual labourers working in Qatar have no secondary-level education and come from Bangladesh (Min. wage $78), India (Min wage $65), Pakistan (Min wage $91), Nepal (Min wage $116) and Sri Lanka (Min wage $34). There are no gangs of Qataris roaming the streets of Lahore or Khatmandu stealing men and selling them into bondage. These workers come to Qatar for a better life and (though there are bad apples in every barrel) that is what they get. They know exactly what conditions in Qatar are like - they've been coming here for generations. Conditions in the worst labour camps in Qatar are vastly better than those on the slums of Orangi or Dharavi.

So, someone coming to Qatar from SE Asia to work will earn far more than in Qatar than they can at home, and emigrant remittances (remember that from Irish economic history?) is feeding, clothing and educating people in their home countries, building homes and setting up businesses. Walk past any Western Union office on a Friday and you'll see a long queue of (mainly) Asians sending much needed money home.

But, you may say. the Qataris can afford to pay more and so should pay more.

Firstly, why would that standard apply to Qataris when it doesn't apply to any other employer anywhere? Employers everywhere pay whatever wages are required to secure the labour that they need, and not a penny more. At $412 per month the Qataris can get all of the (willing) labour that they need.

Secondly, suppose that somehow you could force the Qataris to raise the minimum wage. If they doubled it to about $850 a month it would be around the median global income per capita. Two things will happen immediately:

1. Demand for unskilled labour will drop dramatically because the cost of labour relative to the capital cost of machines has been altered. Instead of hiring 100 unskilled workers to do a job an employer may buy some machines and hire a few skilled machine operators. The huge number of manual workers in Qatar is partly due to the volume of development construction going on and partly because at the wages offered labour is often cheaper than the capital costs of machinery; and
2. For a salary of $850 per month the Qataris will get interest from workers in other countries with much better skills that the workers currently coming from SE Asia. They will get workers who can speak and read English and/or Arabic, and who can learn to perform more complicated tasks. The jobs formerly taken by workers from SE Asia will now be taken by workers from Iraq. Egypt and Syria.

So the upshot of forcing Qatar to raise wages will be to end opportunities for some of the poorest people in the world.

Afterwards, try going to Orabgi or Dharvavi and ask the empty-bellied children if they appreciate your efforts.

(Much of this post is copied from an earlier post #307)

kazamo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900985#Comment_119900985

Corruption exists but that should not prevent us from expecting more from the host nation no matter where in the world it is. There is no ideal country but the winning host country needs to tick boxes in a lot a areas and not just how deep are their pockets which along with existing stadium infrastructure seemed to be the only criteria in the past.

I agree with FIFA making a statement particularly about inclusion.

Won’t be holding my breath however. A very tone deaf organisation sadly.

👆

He’s getting paid isn’t he ?

Edit - 👇

Sleepy

Odd one... so the rules of the yellow card are that it's issued for 6 categories of offence. Interesting to see how FIFA can justify breaking their own rules in order to suck up to the Qatari fundamentalists.

1. Delaying the restart of play - play has to start in order for a player to delay the restart. Could only come into effect if the player put on the armband during a game stoppage and refused to remove it when instructed to do so by the ref.
2. Dissent by word or action - again, the player would have to have the armband already on and refuse to remove it, or to put it on after expressly being told not to do so by the referee during the game.
3. Entering, re-entering or deliberately leaving the field of play without the referee’s permission - The referee would have to refuse entry to the field while the captain was wearing the armband in order to issue the card.
4. Failing to respect the required distance when play is restarted with a corner kick, free kick or throw-in - n/a
5. Persistent offenses (Consistently infringing the Laws of the Game, especially after previously being warned about behavior.) - n/a
6. Unsporting behavior - n/a

So as far as I can see here, under their own rules, the only way FIFA can issue yellow cards for the wearing of the armband is for refusing a referees demand that it be removed after it's already been worn by the player (unless the ref spots it on the walk out from the tunnel and refuses the player permission to enter the field until it's removed).

If I were playing, I'd be taking the yellow card on the chin since, in order for the card to be issued, there'd first have to be television coverage broadcast all over the world of the referee ordering the removal of the armband thereby advertising FIFA's support for homophobia.

Hillmanhunter1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119901041#Comment_119901041

No, a lot of Arabs drink alcohol, but very few will eat pork.

If you think Arab women always dress conservatively you should visit the nightclubs of Beirut or Cairo!

Homosexuality is technically illegal in most Arab countries - but generally (some exceptions - especially Saudi Arabia AFAIK) the attitude is don't ask don't tell. After all there is nowhere in the world where you will see more men holding hands in the street than in the Arab world.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119901060#Comment_119901060

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119901050#Comment_119901050

@cdeb I never made a comparison between them, I made a comparison between their dogmas, so your point is invalid and we're done here. I've had enough of your deliberate and blatant fieigned igornace of the differences between state religion/religious dogma and personal religion and It's gone off topic long enough.

@kazamo true, but most of the criticism of Qatar hasn't been for corruption - it's been for human rights violations and homophobic laws. The corruption allegations have been against FIFA.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900891#Comment_119900891

The thing is, it isn't "England" that would be getting sanctioned. They have already said they consider it a breach of kit rules and would be happy to take the fine for that.

Instead, FIFA are insisting the sanction will be against the individual players, which could mean yellow cards or suspensions and this could rule them out of the world cup, so the FA backing down is the only logical way forward.

You could argue, that the English FA not backing down and letting their players get sanctioned is far more cowardly.

I actually think this has worked out quite well for the English, Welsh, German, French, Norwegian, Swedish, Belgian, Danish, Dutch and Swiss Football Associations. They have backed down and avoided any consequences, but have also managed to highlight the issue of LGBTQ+ rights in Qatar and made FIFA look like a bunch of money grabbing, morally corrupt bastards on a level that simply wearing a One Love armband could never have done.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119901092#Comment_119901092

People need to paint all Muslim countries as being as strict as Qatar so they can play the race card by pushing the lie that anti Qatar World Cup people are actually anti Muslim World Cup people.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900709#Comment_119900709

The same way people snort lines and lines of cocaine and don't for a moment think about all the human rights abuses, suffering, torture and violence they are enabling.