Boards DCM22 Graduates Thread - A Deeper Understanding

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119855923#Comment_119855923

It has been a bit of a up and down year so far. If you had asked me (and some did) at the start of the year if I would ever do a marathon I would say "I will never say never but it is not in my short term plan".

I have been running for years on and off but was never a particularly focused runner. I would train for the odd 10 mile or half marathon but my goto event was always the 5K parkrun in St Anne's (250th run this Sat 🥇). My pace was always fairly sedate and I never got more that 60% in the age grading even at my fastest. During covid I did a fair bit of running but without the parkruns I never had my fast runs anymore so I became a bit of a plodder.

I went into 2022 at around 78-80kg. At 1.78m it was a good enough weight. Then the health issues started. I had major fatigue all of the time. I kept the running going to a point but after any activity I would just want to goto bed rather than spend the day with family etc. I went to a doctor in January and my iron was on the floor. The health system being what it is led me to a specialist in June for an initial appointment and then in August finally finding a root cause (which was gluten). At this point I was 68kg.

Every cloud and all that but at 10kg lighter and my fitness returning at a faster rate than my waistline my running completely changed. On my 249th parkrun at age 46 I was running 2 minutes faster than my previous pb 5, 6 and 7 years earlier.

I then started thinking about marathons as I had done some meaty enough runs (8-10 milers) and was breezing through them relative to what I used to be. My lung capacity was much improved. I looked at Belfast in April as an initial goal. I had access to a DCM entry* so had an idea to start it and run as far as Dolphins Barn to see how I got on. At around 4 or 5 weeks before the marathon I tried some longer runs 20K - 3 weeks out and 26k - 2 weeks out. The 26k was the longest run I had ever done in my life at that point. I felt good after them so decided to have a crack at the whole marathon. If I had to walk a good bit of it that is fine but I was pretty sure I could run to 30K and walk/run the rest.

• *I know you shouldn't transfer numbers Soz

On day of the marathon I felt good. I was in wave 4 and intended to run with the 4:30 pacers. This idea disappeared within a few mins of the start as I settled into a comfortable pace but found the 4:30 pace just a little too slow. I ran the first 10K in just over an hour. The 2nd 10K was harder to pace and I found myself having to keep slowing down as the crowd was dragging me along and was 57mins 30secs. towards the end of the third 10K (1hr) I was getting tired but it was more psychological than physical. I found the 28-32km mark to be the toughest of the run and I walked for a minute and a half. I did the same around 35.5k and the 39.5 mark. I finished in 4hr14.

My legs were definitely sore and I am not going to say I didn't feel it but I think on balance I was comfortable enough for most of the run. I manged it well with the gels, water and bananas and in hindsight probably did not need the few minutes walking but overall I was happy with how it went.

Now that you’ve completed the marathon, what’s next, what are your immediate goals?

I am still thinking Belfast so will aim for that although I don't know anyone else doing it so could be swayed if anything else was happening at around the same time,

What is the pinnacle of what you aspire to achieve with running? Dream big with this one, and have huge confidence in yourself.

I honestly don't know. I don't really know what I am capable of now as my body has changed so much very quickly. I will aim for sub 4 in Belfast and am aiming for parkrun pbs fairly regularly now (4 pbs since mid Sept and was only 5 secs off last Saturday). I would like to do a 10K and half marathon race to benchmark some times for the longer distances.

Out of all the things you had control over, what would you have done differently in the lead up to your marathon?

I fell into it so didn't adequately train. It was maybe foolish to do the marathon but I am glad I did. The proper training starts for Belfast and I will better be able to answer that question.

thx for reading if anyone made it this far.

Murph_D

[deleted]

Lazare

Great stuff Pawwed Rig. Or should I say, given we were talking about abbreviations, Great stuff PR. Pretty fitting I think 😉

That's a fantastic marathon time for someone who didn't have the most optimal build up.

A good solid focus on Belfast will see you well under 4 hours I would think.

MisterJinx

I've been a bit quiet here 😀 Toe is healing up which is a nice relief. I've 6 runs in since DCM. Including an 8 mile very easy with my wife, a club interval session and a few runs in the cold, rain and dark which I've strangely missed! The kids have been either injured or sick over the last couple of weeks which is probably a blessing in disguise as it's meant their training has been off so I've not had the need to run so have taken the break myself which is probably the right thing to do in terms of recovery. Also needed to catch up on some work which I was putting off until after the Marathon. Bit of a cold / sinus this last couple of days so hopefully next week I'll back onto the more structured base plan until Christmas.

My wife just got a DCM '23 entry so that plan is coming together and we can do some good training together over the summer. Also formulating a plan that perhaps we could both do Limerick, she could do the half and I could do the full - still to be fully fleshed out and maybe an abroad trip would be nice but I'm not sure of any places where you could do a half and a full on the same day - any suggestions?

skyblue46

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119890964#Comment_119890964

Vienna which is priced similar to DCM or Madrid which is a RocknRoll event and quite a bit cheaper. There are quite a few annually but those two are close to the Limerick dates...

MisterJinx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119892540#Comment_119892540

Thanks S

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119890964#Comment_119890964

Great to hear your toe is on the mend, a relief. I've about the same amount of runs in since DCM as you, also had a bit of a cold or something this week, elevated resting HR and low energy, and also planning to inject some structure next week. Thursday's run was the first one that the legs didn't have a bit of Clonskeagh in them 😊

I too love the cold weather running, the hat and snood. Love Summer running more obv, but there's something nice about the cold.

Congrats to your wife, mine missed out this time around, so fingers crossed for the next stage of the lottery. Looking forward to training her, and getting her to join up to the novice thread.

Onwards dude.

Lazare

So how was everyone's week?

Throw up a report, even if you did nothing at all, because, you know what, that's ok.

A little guessing game question for you.

I follow Peter Somba on Strava. For those that don't know him, he's a world class athlete running for Dunboyne AC. He made history this year by winning every single Race Series event. A class act.

He won the half marathon running a pace of 5:09 per mile, or 3:12 per km.

Today he ran an easy 10 mile run.

Can anyone guess what his easy pace was?

If you know, don't say.

Think of your own easy pace when coming up with your guess.

DeepBlue

Today he ran an easy 10 mile run.

Can anyone guess what his easy pace was?

7:15 per mile?

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119895490#Comment_119895490

Nope. I'll let a few guesses come in before saying whether you're close to it or not. 😊

DeepBlue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119895546#Comment_119895546

I had no patience so I searched on Strava. 🙈 I was surprised and that pace was very interesting. 😮

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119895580#Comment_119895580

Very interesting. I'm the one who left the comment 😊

For others though, make a guess first before you seek it out, or at least form a guess in your mind before you seek it out.

Pawwed Rig

Weekly report

Monday - slow 10k

Tues - 30km cycle

Wed - 30km cycle

Thurs break as I was working until 1 am on Wed

Fri - slow 13k

Sat - slow 5k and fast 5k parkrun

Dublin334

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119895460#Comment_119895460

I had a look and good laugh...He ran at a pace just slower than me today....that really cheered me up!

Adiaga 2

Base Phase week 1

Tuesday 45 minute very easy - 6:50/km

Wednesday 60 min progression - easy to MP

Thursday 45 min very easy - 6:41/km

Saturday 40 min easy plus strides x10

Sunday 90 min easy 6:30/km

I decided to dive into the base phase plan this week. It went well overall. I tried to be faithful to the paces given by the calculator in the OP. I used my Fingal 10k time as a reference. Initially when I saw the easy and very easy paces I thought they were a bit on the slow side. For the DCM22 novice plan, I got my easy pace by taking my PMP and adding around 45s per mile. But the calculator easy pace was a bit slower and obviously very easy was slower again. I thought I might struggle with the very easy runs but in the end they weren't too bad. I enjoyed the progression run on wednesday. It was the first time I'd ever attempted one. Looking back at the splits it went well until the last km or so where my pace slowed a bit - this was mainly due to my route though, dealing with traffic etc. Saturday's easy with strides was a bit tougher than expected. The recovery bits got longer and slower as the strides went. Today I felt like I'd done a bit of a workout as a result. The 90 minute easy this morning went fine though.

Good one @Lazare with the Peter Somba question. Like DeepBlue I couldn't resist looking it up on strava. That's a real eye opener! I gave him a follow too - he put in some fantastic performances in those race series events this year.

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119895946#Comment_119895946

Great stuff PR, a very active aerobic week which is fantastic.

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119897857#Comment_119897857

Brilliant Adiaga. It's so good to see someone already embarking on the base phase of the Grads Plans. Great week.

Progression runs are my favourite type of run. The pace/effort changes make the run interesting, which passes the time, but I always feel really amazing after doing one. They're a good confidence booster.

Don't be concerned about the Saturday strides feeling tough, it was a good workout and they're so good for keeping that bit of nip in your legs. There's likely still a little bit of DCM in your legs so it feeling hard is ok.

I know you're well used to strides, but no harm to point out. Focus on your form during them. A big reason we do them is to learn how to run fast efficiently and with good form. Chin parallel to the ground, back straight, arms driving.

Not sure if you wear a HR strap/monitor, but I find it so useful for determining when to go again with strides.

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119897797#Comment_119897797

Amazing isn't it.

For those that haven't checked out his run, he ran the 10m easy at 6:20km pace, 10:11 per mile.

He wasn't running with someone slower, or nursing an injury. He regularly runs at that sort of pace.

I think it's very valuable information for people like us. It's inspiring and reassuring.

It's very tempting to doubt the prescribed easy and very easy paces the calc tells us, our egos can sometimes get in our way. The next time we doubt it though, just think of Mr. Somba.

Jbat

Fairly light week for me, I did an hour easy Monday and a half hour easy on Thursday (although had to pick up the pace once or twice to warm up, it was freezing and I didn’t have proper winter gear on) then I was away for the weekend. A recurring back problem has flared up so I’ll probably rest for this week with maybe one or two light runs towards the end of the week and then start the base plan next week.

MisterJinx

We were all sick as a small hospital here over the weekend. Afraid my structured base kick-off is going to have to wait another week as this cold is in my chest now :-( Very unlike me to be sick twice in a year but there is nothing I can do....

TheRef

Yesterday was my first run in over 2 weeks after injuring my calf while refereeing. I was disappointed missing Run The Line, but no doubt it's for the best. I am also suffering from a bad cold, so even though I done 10k at easy pace, I found it tough. I never mind running with a cold generally.

I am planning a 10m race in March, so am starting to think about the plan for that. No idea whether to go with Daniels, Pfitz or 80/20. I'm thinking Pfitz as it has a specific 12 week program, but that can be followed in as little as 8 weeks, so thinking another 2 weeks to get back to pre-marthon level and then straight into that. I need to study it a bit more though...

Plan for this week is 6km Tuesday, 10km Thursday and if I feel okay, 16km (possibly 20km) on Saturday.

masterK

Last week was a quite one for me, I've done something to the base/side of my foot. No idea how.

Anyway started to gradually get back into it with 6km on Friday and 5 on Saturday.

I'm starting to think about plans for next year, I've entered the Wicklow half in March. I thought it was a good event last year.

Any recommendations for a 10km/half around late January/early Feb around Kildare/Dublin? I did Donadea last year, it was just 4 loops of a park trail so wasn't the most interesting.

E.coli

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119901059#Comment_119901059

Rathcoffey is usually the first week in February and the feedback I have seen on this one from people who have run it is generally positive might be one to look at. Popupraces should have more details on their site

Lazare

How's everyone feeling? Lots of colds and viruses rampaging, we're all extra susceptible to them during recovery too, so no big surprise to see so many people struck down. I was too.

@TheRef good call on Run The Line, it's a real pity you had to miss it but I think you made a really wise choice.

What is the trick to running slow. I didn't even look at the watch yesterday, tried to go slow and ran 18ks at 5:01 a k. Lovely day for it anyway. Almost did a half but ran by the house at 11 miles and fancied a drink.

DeepBlue

Everybody probably has their own way of doing it and it's certainly tricky at the start.

What worked for me was setting up a workout on the watch and setting an upper and lower limit on HR with the upper limit being the highest HR still within zone 2. The watch then beeps if I went above that and then I'd cool the jets to bring the HR back down. After a while you can learn the pace you need to maintain.

Avoid running with fast tempo music also when doing your easy days.

Pawwed Rig

Bit of a rough one this week. Was very chesty Monday and Tuesday and then had a work "crisis" which sucked up a lot of time later in the week. Managed a tempo 5 miler on Mon and a slow 10k on Wed. Missed my normal 10k on Friday and then did a slow 6k today before pacing at parkrun.

Nearly a disaster earlier in the week where I only remembered to pay for the marathon entry on the last day 🤣

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119924082#Comment_119924082

When you're rested and in good shape a nippy run like that will feel easy. There's obv positive things to take from that, in terms of confidence. Nice run.

I guess the key there is not looking at the watch. Obviously the ideal is to have a good grasp of feel, running by feel, knowing intuitively what's truly aerobic running. Imho training by HR is the route to it, but that's an aside. Until we get there let's use the tech we have.

Breathing is also a really good indicator (and another good way to learn feel). If you can breath exclusively through your nose you're running aerobically (people say 'slow' when really the terminology should be 'aerobic'), if you're forced to breath through your mouth you've likely broken through the aerobic threshold.

Lazare

'Breaking through the aerobic threshold' doesn't mean you're running anaerobically btw. It just means you're no longer running fully aerobically, your body has begun firing up anaerobic systems.

The point of easy aerobic running is to enhance and build the aerobic system, the engine, your endurance. It makes sense to maximise the effect of those runs by always fully staying within that aerobic zone.

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119925322#Comment_119925322

Phew on the DCM ticket. Still some nice ticking over there PR, as I mentioned the other day the oul viruses are rampant, I hardly know anyone escaping it.