Green cert query

Mayomother

Hi All,

This is my first post and I would be very grateful if any boardsie could advise. My ex husband (who is a farmer) has requested that our son do a 'green cert' in order to avail of possibly him receiving land from his dad in the future. He says that if he has this cert it will allow him to receive the gift without paying any stamp duty. Our son is 22 and a graduate and is working in Dublin (away from the farm - which is in Mayo) and because our son doesn't have a great /no real relationship with his dad (dad's 'fault' he never bothered with him when he was younger - and tbf my son has no interest in farming either- he is dismissing this opportunity out of hand and won't even talk to his dad about it. My feeling is that if his dad is reaching out to help him (he never has up to now) that he should be listened to, and maybe some bonds between them could be strengthened (or forged). However i dont know anything about farming, and from my Internet research it looks like the Teagasc certs are only for over 23s and also seem very onerous (are definitely full time and require alot of practical work).

I would be very grateful if anyone (with farm knowledge)could give me a steer about how to advise my son (he listens to me - most of the time!). I just don't want him to miss out on something that would a) give him some property rights down the line and b) help him get along with his dad better. Thanks so much for reading.

minerleague

If your son has no interest in farming or going farming in the immediate future I don't think you should be pushing him towards doing green cert. I think he can still do it in future ( upto 35?? not sure on this ) if he changes his mind.

Again not fully sure but if you use green cert to avoid stamp duty you have to keep land for 6?? years and either farm it or lease it to someone with green cert

n1st

Let your son decide and leave it there.

Someone else trying to figure out the benefits of possibly acquiring land in the distant future is worrying.

More often than not land inheritance is a burden on everyone. A 20 year old should not be left with their parents problems.

Encourage him to live his life, if he has an interest in farming then he will return when the time is right, could be 20 years time, money and tax will not stop him then.

Belongamick

Hi Mayo mother,

Welcome to boards - great genuine people on here who will offer the best advice they can.

I was that 22 year old - very angry with the absent father who wanted to get back in contact etc.

Your son would probably be able to claim 'Consanguinity' relief from stamp duty by doing the green cert which could reduce the stamp duty burden substantially. Based on the information you have about the amount of land involved, it might be worth getting professional advise from a solicitor and/or accountant on your sons behalf. When the facts are assembled, he can make up his own mind. Green cert does require a fair bit of time/money/effort.

It sounds like your son has zero interest in the farm at the moment which is understandable but assuming it is not too remote, it might suit even to visit in the future. I meet lads every day of the week working in Dublin and 'Mam/Dad has a holiday home in Mayo.' The relationship with dad may never happen but the property will be his in the fullness of time.

Siamsa Sessions

None of us know what will happen in the future, or what way relationships might develop.

I'd advise your son to do the green cert by distance or blended learning. If he has a degree already, then he can do it part-time. Teagasc have set up a green cert course especially for non-agriculture degree holders:

https://www.teagasc.ie/education/courses/agriculture/teagasc-distance-education-green-cert/

I did it over 18 months, 1 day per month on-site with a few exams (which were very easy) on the odd Saturday.

But if he doesn't want to do it now, then don't push it. He can always do it in a few years time. It might be enough to just have the option/idea on the table for now. If I was 22 and working in Dublin, then I have to say farming would probably not be top of my agenda 😀

It's a nice idea to get him to do the green cert and maybe get him and his father talking, but you can't really push it on him.

rliston

It could also be an attempt by the father to get a young trained farmer on the herd number to avail of 60% grants and access to the national reserve

dmakc

Maybe not for sacrificing minimum 20% of income

Donald Trump

Cosanguinity relief doesn't depend on the Green Cert.

Distance Cert is fairly handy given he is already a graduate. He can go down Teagasc or private college route there.

For Agricultural relief for inheritance, the son won't need to have the Green Cert done. He will just have to rent out the farm to someone who is qualified. However he wouldn't have to do that if qualified himself

The stamp duty relief would kick in if the son was to buy land. The other advantage of the GC is the 60% grant level for young farmers. But that requires investment in the farm.

GC can be done at any age. He could do it in his 50's if he wanted to. But he will have aged out for some of the "benefits".

All the above is current situation. Might not be the same in 10 years or 20 years.

RockOrBog

At what rate is stamp duty calculated without a green cert, on farmland, from parent to son?