PME course length being shortened?

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119988269#Comment_119988269

Oh thanks for telling us.

So did you start out your secondary teaching on full salary like the rest of your imaginary teachers in your head.

.. And you don't even need full time hours to get full salary 🤣🤣🤣. 18+ hours , yes ? Is this what you're clutching at. So in all your years experience of teaching have you ever met an NQT who was given this.

..and CID MUST be given after 2 years...

Think that away in your head alright, but please don't be preaching that to any prospective teacher as if it's 100% guaranteed.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119988984#Comment_119988984

I think people on the outside really don't get how utterly draining the contact hours can be, nevermind the "volunteer/voluntold" elemnt and the extra admin etc etc...its always dismissed as whinging mainly by people that really don't have a clue it seems (and I suspect wouldnt be able to do the job at all regardless of their qualifications or what training they were given)....you were always on ...its nothing like any job ive done before or since in terms of that constant stress throughout the working day (theres a reason why actuaries have teachers at a lot lower on the life expectancy tables than a hell of a lot of other professionals) .....when you went in the door up to when you left and the time between those events seemed to continuously extend you were constantly vigilant and ..well on....then stuff like not having long enough for lunch and constantly having it interrupted used to utterly depress me, wolfing down a sandwich without bothering to chew maybe 10 mins total ....it got to me because I felt there was no real way to fight against it without getting a rep or hurting chances of promotion etc etc but it really should be a basic condition of work that's sacrosanct,....not to mention days you might not have one as you are supervising across lunch.....used to make my blood boil tbh...there were countless other irritations like this.....But you mainly felt let down by the people around you that they didn't have the spine to put their foot down and insist lunch = lunch....not lunch = a **** speed eating competition with random lucky dip interruptions and admin

I felt we were our own worst enemies that we couldn't collectively put our foot down and insist on things like lunches are lunches instead of entering a race to the bottom but the rot sets in when it's not a collective effort and people accepting things like that seem to get ahead while everyone else is left with the long term fall out and you can't blame them.....the standard needs to be set from the top on such issues...most groups of people eventually sink to lower and lower levels when it's clear from the set up that all that matters is the result + who can blame someone on a temporary contract just in the door afraid of their own shadow....they need the job etc and the system likes it that way imo.....in the end it will be counterproductive too imo

It amused me at the time when wellbeing was the flavour du jour and seemingly everyone was talking about how unfair the points race was etc etc every move made was contributing to teaching becoming a rat race...I was going to say glorified rat race but somehow the glorified didn't seem appropriate.....

I work in an area that's much more demanding on paper now but in reality while there's more hours involved etc I understand exactly what you are saying.......I do work longer and its demanding in a different way but its not affecting quality of life or health and its been very beneficial in terms of mental health etc etc....I too have weekends back, a better balance and evenings where I not physically and mentally worn out and frustrated/depressed/bitter on occasion.

Dickie10

yeah its crazy,i only did the teaching because i have a geography and history degree and wanted a job that i could work my farming business around, delighted i did it to be honest i really do enjoy it and im lucky i didnt have to rely on getting a full time job for a long time. it suits me down to the ground but i definitley wouldnt encourage people to do teaching with subjects like mine. i eventually got cid after a 5 years but i did pick and choose the schools i went to for jobs and only could because i had a decent farming income. defintiley wouldnt suit everyone after 5 years of college.

joebloggs32

The lunch issue is really raring its head in our place. We are looking at designating one day each week on a rolling basis where absolutely no meetings can take place.

A few weeks ago I worked through a day without any break as i did S&S class and small break and then at lunchtime was required to attend z lunchtime meeting for L2LP planning. Now the meeting for the L2LP planning was mot part of any croke park hours or any other such mechanism, just told to be there because I happen to have a student in my class on the program.

There are so many initiatives taking place, a week for X another day for Y etc anc its "voluntary" effort to get them up and running. Is there any other profession where its expected?

Anf then there is CPD. The education centres run a huge amount of great courses now, but its all on our own time in the evenings or even at the weekend. A colleague who recently left after 15 years remarked how in his new profession all CPD was part of his working hours, not being done on top of his working week.

Dickie10

if that was any type of a school with cop on, on how to treat staff and keep them sweet , tea/coffee decent sandwiches and biscuits should have been on offer at that meeting or any lunch time meeting. yeah i keep signing up for online cpd things but when there online i keep forgetting all about them come the evening, if they were atually in the local ed centre i would remember i had to go ! the last two i signed up for i actually only remebered with 15 mins to go.

Dalmighty

This seems to be making headlines lately.. what are peoples taughts?

Str8outtaWuhan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121073522#Comment_121073522

Before the NCT you could drive a car with bald tyres, now the NCt is telling people you need a minimum thread depth to have roadworthy car. Now imagine the NCT saying " there is a tyre shortage, so we are decreasing the thread depth". 🤣

Dalmighty

That does not really apply to this .. over restrictive It was 1 year until 2014 anf then masters was introduced. 2 year is too long after a 4 year degree. 6 years to become a teacher

Treppen

It's all to do with the dissertation 'thesis' whatever.

I think it's insane puting people into a masters style thesis when they've barely even taught in a school (in general, I know some people could rattle off a thesis over a weekend).

Really, it would make more sense to push the masters title into post qualification. Reduce the time to qualify 'Under conditions' to one year post grad, freeze the payscale for 3 years post qualification until the masters thesis is completed during regular teaching (like it used to , where theory informed practice and vice versa). Then bump up the payscale point once thesis is completed and masters awarded.

...and dump the waste of time that is droichead.

But that won't happen, colleges run education in Ireland.

Look at the big hullabaloo over "The Leaving Cert" when the real problem is "The CAO".

iniscealtra

@glut22 If the job is well paid and he wants more time with kids go part time. You will be down a tax bracket or two depending on income. This also depends if they can cut back on costs and afford the mortgage but changing career and starting at the basic salary would be similar plus two years out of work doing a masters paying fees, Then once qualified as a teacher being flexible location wise to find a job.

Going part time is a better option in my opinion if finances allow.

Dalmighty

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41234236.html

amacca

Wouldn't one think some questions should be asked regarding what the driving forces behind lengthening them in the first place? 😇

joebloggs32

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170436#Comment_121170436

Research by academics put forward the arguments who are employed by the 3rd level institutions that were pushing for it.

happyoutscan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170436#Comment_121170436

Anyone who has been through the 'visual' halls of Hibernia can tell you the answer to that.

Money.

dory

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170436#Comment_121170436

The Driving Forces behind the new Junior Cycle just published a review of their own handiwork. No outside opinion necessary. They found that the Junior Cycle they created is just swell. Similarly, the people who decided their course needed to be bloated up to two years have since decided that they were right.

happyoutscan

It may be shortened but Hibernia will still charge you 15750.

That 2000 for NQT just offered in the budget will also be swallowed up - some way or other - by Hibernia.

Dalmighty

I'm following this closely...

https://www.thejournal.ie/teacher-shortage-napd-conference-norma-foley-6195432-Oct2023/

Thinksits gonna happen before next term

2011abc

The main reason it was doubled to begin with was a massive oversupply of teachers (and to make every teacher a 'Master ' so they could stop paying allowances )