Little changes we can make to normalise cycling and encourage its uptake

magicbastarder

ah, so it's very similar to the 'pedestrians have right of way once they've stepped on the road to cross' law.

but in the same spirit, it doesmake a mockery of expectin cyclists to yield. one of the worst examples, as it's reasonably new still; cyclists expected to yield to pub patrons:

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4247649,-6.2295899,3a,75y,281.49h,81.17t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s9o8LijpYFwt44b31yI3ybg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D9o8LijpYFwt44b31yI3ybg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D205.02692%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119921112#Comment_119921112

Well I would imagine that there would need to be a plate indicating "except for loading"

The latest SI 331/2012 I pulled states

" 8. (1) Traffic sign number RUS 053 (maximum design gross vehicle weight (safety)) shall—

(a) indicate that the driver of a vehicle, the design gross vehicle weight of which exceeds the weight specified on the sign, shall not proceed beyond the sign, and

(b) consist of a white disc with a red border displaying, in black, figures associated with the unit “t” signifying that the design gross vehicle weight of a vehicle must not exceed the weight, in tonnes, specified on the sign."

So I suppose they could break a different law just to satisfy not breaking your preferred law.

Spook_ie

Having just myself mentioning breaking the law I do need to ask when was the photograph taken? I thought the bus lane there was suspended between 10 and 12 which would make it a shared cycle track and subject to different loading/unloading regulations with a 30 minute limit.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119922267#Comment_119922267

It was taken at 8.38am, morning rush hour as I said.

Whichever way you look at this, the same point arrises - complete and utter disrespect for cyclists including a child who can be seen in the first image commuting to school.

Seth Brundle

@Spook_ie: So I suppose they could break a different law just to satisfy not breaking your preferred law.

Why do you think they should they feel entitled to break any law?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119921459#Comment_119921459

holy ****, a couple of years ago I kept cycling there and a taxi who was going to turn started beeping like a lunatic because I kept going. It's so badly designed.

magicbastarder

it's gas. pedestrians have right of way when continuing ahead across a minor road (once they've started to cross). motorists have right of way when continuing straight ahead on the major road. but we take that presumption away for cyclists, even for pub car parks on an R road.

patrickbrophy18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119918561#Comment_119918561

So, in that second paragraph, you condone the double standards surrounding the obedience of traffic lights and one way systems between motorists and cyclists?

Look, I realise that motorists are far from innocent when it comes to obeying the rules of the road especially, those who blatently endanger others as seen in those twitter videos earlier in the thread.

However, I do think that granting cyclists exceptions to these rules due to their vulnerability is only going to breed resentment among motorists. So, if we really want equal respect between the different road user groups, a good start would be to have one standard for all.

In fact, I am considering taking up cycling as a way to get healthy and to replace many of my shorter car journeys. Also, with the high cost of running a car due to high fuel prices, it would be a no-brainer. So, it might alter my perspective a bit. However, in the process, I wouldn't do such things like cycling abreast or breaking red lights as it is inconsiderate.

Some posters here may think they are doing the right thing or are self-righteous in their convictions when inconveniencing motorists. While most cyclists are fine, I do think that if the more self-righteous cyclists want respect from motorists, don't be a nuisance. After all, respect is earned and not something people are unconditionally entitled to.

Bottom line, the double standards which we see between the different road user groups will only fuel resentment between them. In my opinion, double standards are dishonest, insideous and does the opposite of achieving equality. I believe in winning the right way and not through dishonesty.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119926636#Comment_119926636

On one hand, it is unfair to put cyclists and motorists in the same bracket given the enormous difference in vulnerability.

On the other hand, more and more bikes are motorised so there is a growing grey area which is not dealt with by the law.

But you need to consider:

• A car at 50km/h has a lot more momentum than a bike at the same speed.

• Cyclists are up against trucks and buses.

• Cyclists don't have seatbelts or a metal cage surrounding them.

• Bikes are a lot smaller than cars and can easily, politely and respectfully manoeuvre around other road users. The same does not apply to cars.

Can we please try and turn this thread into something more constructive?

• Cyclists need better respect for the rules

• Motorists need to acknowledge just how vulnerable cyclists are.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119926636#Comment_119926636

cycling abreast is perfectly legal, sigh

anyway I for one couldn't care less whether motorists respect me or not, I'm a motorist myself sometimes and I respect cyclists. Do you have no respect for motorists because they're breaking rules every day and killing people all the time? Look at the Garda Traffic Twitter, every day they arrest people full of booze and narcotics driving around sometimes uninsured and unlicensed. Funny that you talk about motorists having no respect for the road users who aren't causing any problems.

magicbastarder

A car at 50km/h has a lotmore momentum than a bike at the same speed.

but you'd *incredibly* rarely see a cyclist doing 50 except on a decent downhill.

assuming open traffic, on the flat, in a 50km/h zone, you'd typically see cyclists doing between 20 and 30km/h, and motorists doing between 40 and 60km/h.

the gas thing is that today, i had to shout at another cyclist for the first time in a year or two. a total failure of observation on his part, despite him having several seconds available to look.

but i shouted at at least half a dozen cars, fat lot of good that did.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119928744#Comment_119928744

Haha 50km/h is a bit high alright but the point still stands!

The big issue here is that cyclists and motorists are forced to share a road that isn't designed to be shared. It shouldn't be surprising that conflicts occur, resentment builds and "confirmation bias" is rife.

If we can't find a constructive basis for a conversation here - what hope is there out on the road?!..

Seth Brundle

The big issue here is that cyclists and motorists are forced to share a road that isn't designed to be shared.

I would disagree. Whilst most of our roads have been engineered towards making life as easy as possible for people driving, this does not mean that the roads cannot be shared. It is the nature of some people not to care enough about others that makes them unsafe.

On my way in to work this morning (30km on back roads in Dublin/Kildare), I was somewhat surprised by the unusually good nature of drivers. They gave me plenty of space when overtaking. Others overtaking close to bends waited until they could see far enough ahead. At one point an oncoming driver had a car parked blocking them (half on a footpath, half on the road 😏) and while I was expecting the driver to barge on through and encroaching on my space, they waited for me to go through. They weren't delayed in any meaningful way. If I were to follow the exact same route later today, I'd get a completely different set of drivers and I could confidently expect several close passes, cars overtaking me despite oncoming traffic or bends.

It is the people that make our roads unsafe. Not the road, not the weather, not the car, not the bicycle but people. Sharing the roads is a very simple concept and one we all are capable of doing. For their own selfish reasons, some choose not to though.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119930188#Comment_119930188

It's absolutely true that better behaviour and mutual respect makes it possible to share the roads. But the roads were 100% not designed for shared bicycle / car usage.

My only point here is that poor infrastructure is the real source of this conflict. I'm trying to find a middle ground that supports a constructive conversation rather than just bickering and finger pointing.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119931003#Comment_119931003

I'm neither bickering or finger pointing. However, you cannot ensure that all roads are designed in a way that suits all users. Therefore, we need users to be more tolerant of other users and in order to assist this new-found tolerance, we need the gardai to start taking it seriously and enforce the laws that we have.

Now as some routes will contain more active travel users, then these should be factored into the design but realistically, we cannot have segregation lanes on every little road in our cities and towns. For this reason, it is down to people sharing the space together. If a road is to be "shared" then we need to adopt a policy similar to the UK where there is a hierarchy of users with viluerable users given more priority.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119931329#Comment_119931329

Yeah agreed. The bickering and finger pointing is a general reference to this thread, not you! From an infrastructure point of view, major changes will be slow.

In the meantime, simple changes like amber flashing bike lights at every pedestrian crossing should become standard.

Rather than cyclists "breaking red lights", they'd use the amber light while yielding to pedestrians. This would benefit cyclists and change the argument that "cyclists never respect red lights", which is not inaccurate...

buffalo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119921459#Comment_119921459

This one is also nearby - yield to this disused entrance: https://goo.gl/maps/w7bdwPXCuMsfx51u8

Seth Brundle

^^^ Ireland...

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119922777#Comment_119922777

Just out of interest, what makes you say he's parked in a bus lane anyway? I happened to drive there this afternoon. I didn't notice any loading restriction plates but I DID notice that it isn't a bus lane, it lacks the requisite signage of

4. The roadway markings to indicate a bus lane shall consist of—

( a ) a continuous white line or lines 250 millimetres wide save where one edge of the bus lane coincides with the centre line of a roadway between the bus lane and an adjoining traffic lane and,

it would appear that it is mainly a left hand filter lane for the turn into Botanic Avenue and as such, given the broken line cycle lane is probably allowed to load/unload for the 30 mins.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3672419,-6.2553323,64m/data=!3m1!1e3