Little changes we can make to normalise cycling and encourage its uptake

Alias G

Nobody seriously expects the ferry to return to dun laoghaire. Proximity to Dublin port ensures that.

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886356#Comment_119886356

@Robot22 Please stop banging on about Amsterdam,it has millions of people.

Less than a million within the city limits, a bit over 2 million in the metropolitan area. Not too different to Dublin, so it can be a useful comparison.

@Robot22 living in an area the size of Munster

You what? 

@Robot22 Its just easier and more convenient to get from A to B in the car and thats why the cycle lanes especially in the suburbs are empty most of the day.

@Robot22 These empty cycle lanes are having a negative impact in residential areas, they are leading to long tailbacks throughout the day and thus more emissions, a car journey that used to take fifteen minutes can now take over thirty

So which is it? Is it more convenient to travel in a car or does it actually take the same length of time as cycling? (A journey that takes 15 minutes by car in light urban traffic will take about 30 minutes by bike irrespective of the traffic.) And what has driven your conclusion that it is cycle lanes that are leading to long tailbacks rather than, say, the sharp increase in the number of registered cars on the road in recent year?

@Robot22 Does anyone anywhere engage in any joined up thinking.

That would certainly be useful, but you might start closer to home..............

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886357#Comment_119886357

Ah, the good old motorist lobby making the same old tired invalid arguments again and again and again. One day there might be a balanced discussion going on but we have the "two wheels bad" and "four wheels good" brigade led by yourself. Nothing positive to add just bitching and whining, wanting your cake and eating it.

magicbastarder

Anyway, one big issue for many cyclists or budding cyclists is theft. A friend of mine was given an old beater to get to the train station, otherwise a 20 minute walk for him. The very first day he used it, it was gone on the home leg of his journey.

I suppose I should have said the cycle lanes I have seen installed on the routes I use and the area I live in.

Removing left filter lanes to make way for wide cycle lanes has most definitely caused a deterioration in the area I live in, how could it now when you have long long lines of traffic building up without a filter light for up to half of this traffic to turn left and efficiently proceed on its way.

The car journey that used to take fifteen minutes from point A to B is now taking thirty, this is a journey of maybe two kilometres,this is only a very small part of the journey,the vast majority of people sitting in the cars spewing fumes while they idle could be travelling much further.

So, yes, its a lot more convenient to sit in the car listening to the radio with the seat warmer on.

And I need no encouragement to cycle and no cycle lanes either, I just cycle when I want to without making a song and a dance about it.

If you cant manage to cycle on roads with traffic then maybe cycling isnt for you at all.

McGrath5

Funny how when people are given options between cycling, walking, public transport or driving they will pick the one that suits them the best. I see the Netherlands is referred to plenty in this thread, in fact its one of the best places in the world to be a motorist...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RRE2rDw4k&t=87s

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886536#Comment_119886536

Bloody pedestrians!

b v

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886542#Comment_119886542

If you can’t manage to drive on a road with cyclists (ie, other traffic) then maybe driving isn’t for you.

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886376#Comment_119886376

I am not part of the 'weekend lycra road bike crew' and I actually do most of my weekend travel by car, and just use a bike to get to and from work during the week. But, if there are a group of cyclists travelling together at 40km/h, I'd much prefer to see them using the road rather than using a cycle lane, even if it does mean I'm held back a few seconds waiting for a safe opportunity to overtake them. It's just safer for everyone.

@spaceHopper No, you are given them the choice of how to travel, you still have to do it with in the rules of the road. If you want to cycle, the use the cycle lane not the car lane, it's no longer a shared space.

That's the complete opposite of what is actually in the Rules of the Road but I hope you know that already if you actually hold a driving license. And how does this work in the situation I described above, where the cycle lane is useless in terms of getting me to my destination when I'm going home from work, but I still need to cycle alongside it for 400m?

@spaceHopper If there is no cycle lane then it's shared space and it has to be wide enough for cars to pass bikes safely.

I'm not clear what you are trying to say here. Ireland is full of roads where there are no cycle lanes but it is not wide enough for cars to pass bikes safely. I presume you are not saying that people who use bicycles for transport should be banned from these roads? But what actually are you trying to say?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886514#Comment_119886514

Invalid to whom, you?

The motorist lobby is not looking to have cyclists access to the road reduced, (or in some places, removed entirely) or to have segregation on the road by means of lanes put in for their sole use and convenience, while still expecting full access to and priority over the rest of the available road and other road users,

For the record, I have never said two wheels are bad, I drove a motorcyle for years. But your bias against anything with more than two wheels is very clear and very one sided. There is no willingness there to "share the road".

Alias G

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886542#Comment_119886542

Traffic turning left does not need to cross a lane and is unimpeded. How therefore is the scenario you describe causing tailbacks. Perhaps it is because of the volume of cars.

Cycling shouldn't just be the preserve of those confident enough to take it on. We should be making it safer so that all abilities can use their bikes from primary school up to retiree's.

spaceHopper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886579#Comment_119886579

If there is a cycle lane the the 40kph lycra bunch should slow down and use the cycle lane until they are out of the town and then the can go at 40kph.

If you are cycling along side it then how is it useless ? What's stopping you from using it.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886542#Comment_119886542

The car journey that used to take fifteen minutes from point A to B is now taking thirty, this is a journey of maybe two kilometres

Can you not see the issue? 15 minutes to travel 2km is horrendous to begin with. That's not a case of a good situation made bad, it's a case of a horrible situation made worse.

That's an average of 8km/h. I walk at about 6km/h.

magicbastarder

Taking that post at face value, it's basically arguing that because car travel is so inefficient, we need to assign more road space to cars. Which is the opposite of the changes which have been made recently, assigning more space to the efficient modes of transport.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886633#Comment_119886633

The issue is not the number of cars,its the removing of the option for cars turning left. before the traffic lights that is causing the congestion.

Prior to taking away the option to turn left the traffic moved efficently. The cycle lane has done nothing to increase the numbers cycling but it has caused a big increase in emissions.

Most people adjust to the travel time,they leave earlier and earlier and for the vast majority cycling isnt an option, they simply cant cycle to wherever they are going to or maybe they just dont want to.

People who cycle arent representative of the general population, they are mostly male with just themselves to get to work in the morning and get home in the evening.

So installing cycle lanes everywhere and adding hugely to traffic congestion is serving the mostly men who cycle,its certainly not encouraging other demographics to start or return to cycling and in the grand scheme of things this doesnt matter.

What matters is providing a viable alternative to the car and for most people its a decent safe,reliable, cheap public transport service.

Too much time is being spent talking endlessly about active travel when the solution is buses primarily,enough already.

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886602#Comment_119886602

@spaceHopper If there is a cycle lane the the 40kph lycra bunch should slow down and use the cycle lane until they are out of the town and then the can go at 40kph.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. I think anyone whose natural speed is 40km/h in a 50km/h zone should be in the main carriageway, irrespective of what type of vehicle they are in or on.

@spaceHopper If you are cycling along side it then how is it useless ? What's stopping you from using it.

The cycle lane I cycle alongside is raised to footpath level with a high kerb. The only place to come down from the cycle lane to the road level safely is 400m before the roundabout. There are five exits off that roundabout. The cycle lane leads to the first exit only. It gives you no opportunity to get in lane for the other exits. If you want to travel legally and safely to the other exits of the roundabout you need to be down at road level from a point 400m back. So, do you believe I should be prohibited from cycling on the road in this situation?

@spaceHopper If there is no cycle lane then it's shared space and it has to be wide enough for cars to pass bikes safely.

Still no clarification on this? What are your intentions for roads where there is no cycle lane and it is not wide enough for cars to pass bikes safely?

magicbastarder

People who cycle arent representative of the general population, they are mostly male with just themselves to get to work in the morning and get home in the evening.

Yes, this is the problem we are trying to solve. It's the reason to try, rather than the reason to not try.

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886589#Comment_119886589

@[Deleted User] The motorist lobby is not looking to have cyclists access to the road reduced, (or in some places, removed entirely) or to have segregation on the road by means of lanes put in for their sole use and convenience

You might want to take a closer look further up in this thread. There are multiple instances of posters calling for exactly that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886809#Comment_119886809

Username checks out.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886429#Comment_119886429

Reopening a 200 year old port to commercial car ferry's bringing in thousands of polluting vehicles a year into one of Dublin's nicest and more upmarket areas again is pure crackers!

Time to move on and use the area for places people and work and relax, not have thundering trucks driving through it...

patrickbrophy18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886483#Comment_119886483

Don't worry. It's his MO. He did that to me several months ago. As far as he is concerned, car users are bad regardless.

I had a quick glance through many of your posts and completely agree with all of them. It's nice to see another poster who is in touch with reality and doesn't subscribe to the "car drivers bad" brigade.

Also, I second the arguement that many of the social distancing friendly traffic calming measures have made previously quick car journeys significantly longer. This in turn, increases their fuel consumption. At a time when fuel prices are going up, the last thing we should be doing is more traffic calming.

Alias G

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887238#Comment_119887238

Car journeys take too long because too many people want to take their cars on the road at the same time. Anyone with two functioning eyes can walk out their front door and see the evidence for themselves. Continuing facilitation of motorised traffic over more efficient modes will only lead us to an even worse outcome.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886589#Comment_119886589

If they're taking the lane, there's a reason.

If they're not using a cycle lane there's a reason.

Share the road, be patient, they'll only hold you up for a few seconds. They're more attuned to what's going on on the road, they can hear better, see better, they're usually fitter and have better reactions than your average motorist.

I'm a motorist by the way three vehicles, all with four wheels. However, I'm intelligent enough to know that the more cyclists we have, the easier we make it for them to cycle, the more room we give them and the less restrictions we put on them means emptier roads, less cars more room for people who have to drive.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886542#Comment_119886542

Seriously, 2km in fifteen minutes? You'd walk it in half the time. The problem isn't the very minor configuration change to the junction to stop people from getting killed. The problem is all the people who want to drive round with four empty seats for 2km journeys, complaining about there not being enough road space.

Cycle lanes aren't about encouraging you to cycle. It's about encouraging those older than you, younger than you, more frail and disabled than you, more female than you. The 'I'm all right Jack' thinking doesn't really work.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886602#Comment_119886602

Why do you think your journey is more important than anyone else's? We're all equal on the roads. The '40 kmph lycra bunch' have just as much right to use the road as you do. If you can't manage to overtake, maybe you need more driving lessons.

This will give you some idea why some cycle lanes are useless.

https://irishcycle.com/2015/11/05/images-25-reasons-why-cyclists-dont-use-cycle-lanes/

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886882#Comment_119886882

Thank you for the intelligent response. It's great to know people are willing to engage at a sensible level.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887537#Comment_119887537

You're welcome.

When people are willing to engage at sensible level that is actually inclusive of the needs of all road users, and not just cyclists, then I might be more bothered to engage. Until then...

Well I guess someday we can hope that discussion will actually happen on one of these threads. I won't hold my breath, though.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887442#Comment_119887442

As I said the start of the journey took up to fifteen mins and it now can take double that,what do you propose I do, walk the couple of km and somehow or other my car will then arrive to allow me to continue on. The issue isnt just me though, its access for emergency services too, as Loueze says the roads should be for the benefit of everyone and not just cyclists.

And why are you assuming cars are being driven around with four empty seats,do you have a back carrier on your bike and a saddle on the crossbar,why not,who do you think you are just looking after your own transport needs,taking up road space. Why dont you transport your family around on your bike instead of buying them separate bikes,that would be less bikes on the road and more room for emergency vehicles.

Seriously get on with your life, stop expecting other people to give a minority activity priority on the roads, stop blaming everyone from other drivers to Gardai for whatever failings you perceive they have,nobody least of all overworked Gardai care about your problems, they like everyone else can see the entitled middle aged male cycling behaviour and unless ownership of that behaviour is taken by cycling advocacy groups then sensible respectful mutual discussion will never take place.

You are a huge part of the problem Andrew and if you want to increase cycling numbers then your attitude must change.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119884100#Comment_119884100

it's in a death spiral.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119888061#Comment_119888061

As was said to Loueze,nobody is forcing you to read or post here.

If all you want is four wheels bad, two wheels good then dont open this thread.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119888042#Comment_119888042

So where is this 2km journey that now takes you 30 minutes as a result of cycle lanes?

Emergency services have no issue with cycle lanes and indeed have used cycle lanes on occasion. It’s fascinating to see this sudden interest in access for emergency services though, from people who didn’t give a toss about how long those vehicles were stuck in ordinary traffic for years.

I’m assuming drivers are driving around with four empty seats because that’s what Dublin traffic analysis tells us- that 80% of cars are 80% empty, and these are the people wondering why there’s not enough room for them on the road.

As for your ‘minority activity’, more people cycle to work or college in Dublin than use DART, suburban rail and Luas combined. Twice as many bikes as cars pass through Leeson St Bridge in rush hour. This isn’t a minority niche, regardless of how desperately you want it to be.

The Trumpian tactic of blaming pollution on the one group of road users who don’t pollute is quite something.